Fishman Pro Platinum EQ as A Pre Amplifier?

[Ric Vice]

Hey All,
Could you actually use the Pro Platinum as a Pre amp into a power amp like a Focus SA or......... Thus placing the pre amp close to your hands on a gig. Just wondering if this is actually possible, or if any one had actually tried this. It may not work at all, but I'm certainly curious.

Ric

[el_mariachi]

First thing to keep in mind is the the Fishman's 1/4" output is instrument level, not line level. A Focus SA would work because its input is "instrument level." Most conventional power amplifiers have a "line level" input and therefor using the Fishman into it would result in a much lower output.

[charmicarmicat]

I've tried it with a 1000 watt in 4 ohm power amp and it wasn't that great. Not sure why but maybe the Fishman is not meant as a stand alone unit and is better used in conjunction with another amp.

[robgrow]

Originally Posted by el_mariachi

First thing to keep in mind is the the Fishman's 1/4" output is instrument level, not line level. A Focus SA would work because its input is "instrument level." Most conventional power amplifiers have a "line level" input and therefor using the Fishman into it would result in a much lower output.

Didn't know the Focus SA has an instrument level input. Pretty unusual for a power amp. Very handy in a case like this though.

Originally Posted by charmicarmicat

I've tried it with a 1000 watt in 4 ohm power amp and it wasn't that great. Not sure why but maybe the Fishman is not meant as a stand alone unit and is better used in conjunction with another amp.

Most power amps require between 1 and 2 volts to drive them to their full output. It's likely that the Fishman just doesn't have enough oomph to drive the amp to its rated output.

[charmicarmicat]

Originally Posted by robgrow

Most power amps require between 1 and 2 volts to drive them to their full output. It's likely that the Fishman just doesn't have enough oomph to drive the amp to its rated output.

Is there something that can be done? I do like the Fishman and it would be great/handy if I could use with a power amp.

[Alain Bass]

I use a Fishmann Platinium with a Focus SA without level problems.

In the past, I had a discussion with the people from Acoustic Image to know if the Platinium could work correctly with a Focus SA. They said yes.
The level of the Platinium XLR output is exactly what need the Focus SA input. I try to find the same level with the 1/4 output and find that this can be done when the Fishmann output volume is set at 2 o'clock. (Input gain set at: flash a little)

I am surprise to read that the Focus SA has an instrument input, because it should be the same unit as the Clarus … without his preamp. Does AI makes different level for their preamps than others company. I don't think. A line level is a line level. So probably the Focus SA input is a line one.

It's very cool to have the preamp close to your hand on stage, easy to control your sound, but keep in mind that the Platinium is quite heavy, and cannot stand easily on music stands for ex.

[el_mariachi]

Everyone, read my first reply. The Focus SA WILL work. most conventional power amps WILL NOT. The Focus SA is essentially any of their other focus amps without an onboard preamp. Go to Acoustic Image's page and read the specs on it.

Originally Posted by robgrow

Most power amps require between 1 and 2 volts to drive them to their full output. It's likely that the Fishman just doesn't have enough oomph to drive the amp to its rated output.

Exactly. The Fishman's output is only instrument level, so it is probably in the order of millivolts (I can't find an exact figure).

[Ric Vice]

Originally Posted by el_mariachi

Everyone, read my first reply. The Focus SA WILL work. most conventional power amps WILL NOT. The Focus SA is essentially any of their other focus amps without an onboard preamp. Go to Acoustic Image's page and read the specs on it.


Exactly. The Fishman's output is only instrument level, so it is probably in the order of millivolts (I can't find an exact figure).

Thanks El Mariachi.
Ultimately, It's not probably as cost effective as just buying a Focus. What I'm wondering though, is if the Fishman Pro Platinum Pre amp improves the sound overall vs the Focus Pre amp. Frankly, having two pre amp sections gets pretty complicated.




Ric

[shwashwa]

so we've established that the fishman will work with the focus sa. but what about other more conventional poweramps that have an xlr input. isnt the xlr output on the fishman line level?

[Ric Vice]

Originally Posted by shwashwa

so we've established that the fishman will work with the focus sa. but what about other more conventional poweramps that have an xlr input. isnt the xlr output on the fishman line level?

Shwashwa,
Here's the direct quote from El Marachi,

"Everyone, read my first reply. The Focus SA WILL work. most conventional power amps WILL NOT. The Focus SA is essentially any of their other focus amps without an onboard preamp. Go to Acoustic Image's page and read the specs on it."

[Randy Ward]

Originally Posted by Ric Vice

Thanks El Mariachi.
Ultimately, It's not probably as cost effective as just buying a Focus. What I'm wondering though, is if the Fishman Pro Platinum Pre amp improves the sound overall vs the Focus Pre amp. Frankly, having two pre amp sections gets pretty complicated.
Ric

Ric;
is the 'or............' in the first post refering to your woods power amp?
If you still have that WW pwr amp couldn't you borrow a Fishman Pro Platinum EQ and check that out?
I agree it is nice to have the eq controls close.

For a while I used a stand mounted D-Tar Solstice w' AI focus ll. SA.
During that time I also borrowed a Fishman Pro to try and used just that as I was thinking of going that way.
I ended up selling all that stuff and getting a Focus lll2r.

[el_mariachi]

taking the XLR directly to the power amp *might* work. I didn't get the chance to try it when I had one. BUT, for those that would need a direct to the board, would lose the functionality of the preamp going to the board.

[el_mariachi]

The only time that the Fishman might be better than the Focus pre is if you have an older piezo pickup that needs more than the 1 MOhm impedence that the series III AI amps have. And even then, I'd be more inclined to go with the Focus and one of FDECK's preamps if that were the case.

Originally Posted by Ric Vice

Thanks El Mariachi.
Ultimately, It's not probably as cost effective as just buying a Focus. What I'm wondering though, is if the Fishman Pro Platinum Pre amp improves the sound overall vs the Focus Pre amp. Frankly, having two pre amp sections gets pretty complicated.Ric

[Ric Vice]

Originally Posted by Randy Ward

Ric;
is the 'or............' in the first post refering to your woods power amp?
If you still have that WW pwr amp couldn't you borrow a Fishman Pro Platinum EQ and check that out?
I agree it is nice to have the eq controls close.

For a while I used a stand mounted D-Tar Solstice w' AI focus ll. SA.
During that time I also borrowed a Fishman Pro to try and used just that as I was thinking of going that way.
I ended up selling all that stuff and getting a Focus lll2r.

Randy,
Great intuition, but no, Walter stopped building power amps a long time ago, but I never owned one. With my bass, the Realist, and EA VL Cabinets the Woods Pre amp sounds excellent. I was just wondering if you could "bi-pass" the Focus Pre-amp altogether with the
Fishman and get a great sound with all the feedback control that the Pro Platinum Has.

This Focus SA Pro Platinum Combination Has Peaked My Interest

Ric

[bassist14]

i tried the fishman proeq platinum with a schertler pub280,
it worked, sounded ok, but i couldn´t get much volume

[Randy Ward]

Originally Posted by Ric Vice

Randy,
Great intuition, but no, Walter stopped building power amps a long time ago, but I never owned one. With my bass, the Realist, and EA VL Cabinets the Woods Pre amp sounds excellent. I was just wondering if you could "bi-pass" the Focus Pre-amp altogether with the
Fishman and get a great sound with all the feedback control that the Pro Platinum Has.

This Focus SA Pro Platinum Combination Has Peaked My Interest

Ric

I just figured since you were a 'woods' man you might have one. I always wanted one.

FWIW once I got used to it the EQ and filter/notch things for the AI along with a Full Circle and a vibramute in the tail piece I feel I have good feedback control. I did miss the compressor on the Pro Platinum at first.

[seanm]

According to the specs, the Fishman has a +10dBu output. That should be able to drive many power amps. +10dBu is just under 2.5V RMS.

However, I think you would need a hot input signal. The Fishman could not drive my Behringer EP1500 which needs at least 2V RMS. This was with a passive P bass.

The balanced out is much lower (-6dBu) and is meant to go to a PA, not a power amp.

Basically, you need to try it and see if it works.

[Ric Vice]

Originally Posted by Randy Ward

I just figured since you were a 'woods' man you might have one. I always wanted one.

FWIW once I got used to it the EQ and filter/notch things for the AI along with a Full Circle and a vibramute in the tail piece I feel I have good feedback control. I did miss the compressor on the Pro Platinum at first.

Randy,
Well, I certainly considered it back in the days when Walter's amps only produced 100 watts, he built a slave amp. Once He produced the MI-400-8 and the MI-600-8 (I really wish that I'd bought the 600) the slaves became unnecessary. To my knowledge he never produced a Electro Acoustic "Slave" amp since their really wasn't any need for one.
Unfortunately, my bass, string and pickup combination didn't work with the Focus series II when I A/B ed it with both of the Woods Amps I owned. I'd like to try a Focus III but it will require a road trip since no one stocks one in St. Louis.

Ric