Full Circle output?

Dudie · #1 06-13-2011, 12:32 PM

Just bought a bass with a full circle pickup installed. Loved the sound from it but when straighten upp my bridge and raised my strings i suddenly lost output! I'll have to crank up my amp to almost double the volume that i used to do and the sound is a bit muddy. The bridge is now straight and i cant see anything wrong with the pickup.... Anyone know whats wrong or maybe have had the same experience?

Thnx!

Mike Arnopol · #2 06-13-2011, 04:51 PM

It's probably not fitted properly. It has to be making intimate contact with the wood. If you tilt your bridge forward just slightly it should make a difference. The FC is actually really hard to fit perfectly. What you can do is when the bridge is off take an old adjuster, cut a (perfect) 1/4' hole in a piece of say, 180 grit sandpaper and use an adhesive like 3m Super 77 to glue it to the surface of the adjuster that contacts the wood. Drill a hole in a 2x4, put it on a table, and put the threaded side in the hole. Apply pressure making sure that the bridge is perpendicular and rotate the adjuster to make sure that the contact area is sanded so that there is perfect contact. I bet that when you take off the bridge and look at the underside of where the FC contacts and you will see (the spots where it contacts will be pretty dark) that it is only contacting in a few spots. Carefully sand the center area to make sure that it isn't raised in that spot.

Dudie · #3 06-14-2011, 10:32 AM

Thank you!!
I dont think its wrong installed. Its a Cleveland and i think the guys at New Standard know how to install a Full Circle

It also worked well when i bought it but when i raised my strings about 3mm the problem started. The bridge was also a bit tilted so i straghted it up. Is it so sensitive for changes? I can play with it but i must use a preamp to get the sound i want, sadly for me since im a "plug &play" guy ;-/

**Chris Fitzgerald** · #4 06-14-2011, 10:40 AM

I just went through this same thing. My strings came down a bit and the output increased, I wanted to raise them and it decreased when I did. I don't know if it's an angle thing or a pressure thing. Fortunately for my my amp (PJB BG-300) has an input gain control, so I can make up the difference there.

Uncletoad · #5 06-14-2011, 12:59 PM

Can you take some photos of the full circle from several angles so we can see how it sits?

Hard to diagnose stuff like that without seeing something.

Dudie · #6 06-15-2011, 01:53 AM

I'll do that, but i think it will be hard to se any wrong with it. What i can see its all straight and looks ok.

Uncletoad · #7 06-15-2011, 06:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dudie

I'll do that, but i think it will be hard to se any wrong with it. What i can see its all straight and looks ok.

Ok. I've found it sounds better with the wire pointing straight up or straight down parallel with a line drawn through the center of the length of the bass. Where is yours?

Greg Clinkingbeard · #8 06-15-2011, 06:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dudie

I'll do that, but i think it will be hard to se any wrong with it. What i can see its all straight and looks ok.

The fit must be so tight as not to allow a sheet of paper between the adjuster and wood. A poor fit will cause the problem you have described.

**Chris Fitzgerald** · #9 06-15-2011, 08:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uncletoad

Ok. I've found it sounds better with the wire pointing straight up or straight down parallel with a line drawn through the center of the length of the bass.

This is interesting, and looking back on it, there may be something to it. Technically, though, looking at the design with 4 crystals inside the wheel, it *should* sound the same on the inside flat parts of the bridge as well. But I'm not sure it does... I'll check on that tonight and see if I notice a difference in sound/output.

Uncletoad · #10 06-15-2011, 08:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Fitzgerald

This is interesting, and looking back on it, there may be something to it. Technically, though, looking at the design with 4 crystals inside the wheel, it *should* sound the same on the inside flat parts of the bridge as well. But I'm not sure it does... I'll check on that tonight and see if I notice a difference in sound/output.

It should, intellectually I get that, but on both my basses it never seems to sound right anywhere else.

Dudie · #11 06-15-2011, 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by clink

The fit must be so tight as not to allow a sheet of paper between the adjuster and wood. A poor fit will cause the problem you have described.

This can be the problem. When i first got the bass the bridge was tilted forward against the fingerboard and caused a bigger gap and a bigger contact-area, if you know what i mean. Then i sounded great! Now when everthing looks ok with the bridge there is a small gap between the pickup and the bridge. I will post some picture of it later, now i must hurry to a gig

Roy Vogt · #12 06-15-2011, 10:09 AM

The pickup is designed so that when you change the position of the adjuster wheel it will change the sound from full to sort of hollow. Rotate the adjuster wheel and the sound should change.
Also, the sound improves dramatically if you use some sort of preamp (I'm using the Fishman Platinum) before you plug it into your bass amp. It's just a better impedance match.

Dudie · #13 06-16-2011, 09:24 AM

Here are som pix

Dudie · #14 06-16-2011, 09:26 AM

Can that small gap be the problem?

Uncletoad · #15 06-16-2011, 09:45 AM

Two things.

That wheel and the bridge above it must be in contact all the way around. That's either an installation issue or and adjustment issue. See if you can move the bridge top to sit flush with the top of the adjuster wheel all the way around.

Secondly that wire sticking out that corner is gonna sound pretty bad. Point that wire straight up or straight down parallel to the neck and then see what you get.

Fix both of those issues. If it still sounds bad a transducer in the pickup is broken and the pickup wheel should be replaced.

notabene · #16 06-16-2011, 09:57 AM

Dudie
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Sweden
Can that small gap be the problem?

Yes, I think so. It looks as though the hole in the upper part of the bridge might not be deep enough. Quick fix.

Uncletoad · #17 06-16-2011, 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by notabene

Yes, I think so. It looks as though the hole in the upper part of the bridge might not be deep enough. Quick fix.

If it's bottoming out on the upper hole it might be better to file a touch off the top of the adjuster wheel for such a small space rather than risk the bit chatter that might throw off the hole in for the adjuster wheel.

Jake deVilliers · #18 06-16-2011, 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dudie

Can that small gap be the problem?

That's definitely your problem. The bridge needs to be removed and the recessed hole for the upper pin bored a little deeper so that the pickup has full contact. Your luthier might check the leg of the bridge for smoothness and flatness while he's there.

Then orient the wire as Phil suggests and get playing!

Good luck, Jake

Greg Clinkingbeard · #19 06-16-2011, 12:40 PM

It looks like the bridge was originally drilled for bigger adjusters and now has metal inserts. I would bet there is a metal sleeve in there that is too long for the hole. That needs attention. It's hard to believe any luthier would let that out of the shop.
Inserts are fine if done right.

Eric Hochberg · #20 06-16-2011, 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dudie

It also worked well when i bought it but when i raised my strings about 3mm the problem started. /

Maybe when you raised the bridge, the insert screwed out of the bridge a bit with the wheel and created the gap. Just a guess, I don't know how inserts are attached, or if you even have them.