Have a Walter, but want a change..AI CODA??

[funkyfretless]

hey guys,
i currently have a walter woods amp. i was using it with 1 (or 2) and didnt like the tone at all. ive played around with a few other, but didnt like them either.

last night i sat in on a freinds rig. he was using a albert jakstadt bass (it was amazing) and a acoutic image coda.
the tone was amazing!!!!!!!!!!!! i could hear all the notes clearly and it sounded like the bass but louder. the walter is very coloring to my ears. the g string did get lost arouind the 3rd to 5/6th position, but i thing it was the was it was set up, and the pu was am underwood, so that might have been why.

the only thing that concerns me besisides the g string is the loudness. i play in a big band at my current college, and want to know if it will be loud enough to handle a big band situation as well as trio to sextet gigs. i am looking at moving to ga state and need a small amp to move from gig to gig. would this be good.

i currenly use a upton with a amt bass mic and a rev solo pu.
i am lookin to upgrade a bass soon and problbyt end up with a new pu (full circle or gage).

for the time being with this ai sound good with my current gear??


btw, which version of the ai coda should i get if i end up with it, the series, I, II, or III. the one i played on was a I or II.
thanks
evan

[gnergaard]

It sounds to me like all the problems you described are with the bass pickup and set-up -NOt the woods.
BTW what series is your Woods?
Similarly, it also sounds to me like all the things you liked about this other person's set up are because of the bass, set-up and pick-up.
Not knocking the AI stuff, but after reading numerous posts here the real advantage to the AI amps compared to the Woods are the built in mic pres and the Highpass filters (I think these are in the newer models only). Most people seem to say that the Walter woods heads are as loud if not louder, have better sounding (more useful) EQ's, and a color to the preamp that is good for upright and electric. There's no simple solution for adding a mic pre to the woods, but your AMT preamp already takes care of that. If you feel you need a high-pass filter, just get one of DURB's $50 units for sale here.
The Woods amps are hard to come by. AI stuff will be readily available for many years to come. AI stuff is very very good, especially because it is about 1/2 the price of Walter Woods stuff, but think carefully before getting rid of your woods. I'd at least borrow a friends AI head and spend some time A-Bing it with your woods using all of your instruments before making the change.
2 cents. I use a woods Ultra and really, really like it. It's a great tool.

[funkyfretless]

that was my idea to, to a b them.

i have the green light version btw.

keep them commin

[Ric Vice]

Originally Posted by funkyfretless

hey guys,
i currently have a walter woods amp. i was using it with 1 (or 2) and didnt like the tone at all. ive played around with a few other, but didnt like them either. evan

Evan,
Well, I really don't know what to tell you. I have used Walter Woods amplifiers for close to 27 years and I've never been dissatisfied. When I a/b it with a Focus Series II their was no comparison. What model Woods do you have? Personally, I'd hang on to that amp and change the pickup first. Acoustic Image Series III amplifiers do have a great deal of flexibility with the notch/hi pass filters and dual use inputs but they don't sound like a Woods. Realists and Full Circles are both very nice units. Uncle Toad has used both amplifiers. If would be helpful to P.M. him.

Ric

[all_grown_up]

I have both the Walter Woods Stereo green light and an AI Coda III combo. I just sold my Contra IIa combo to get the Coda III.

The AI is plenty loud for big bands. I get constant compliments on my sound.
For outdoors I either use the AI with extension or the Woods (with Acmes).

A Coda III at 20 lbs gets slung over the shoulder. I play a lot and it is really convenient. Lately I have taken to putting a condensor mike in front of the saxes and plugging it into the coda so I have my own personal monitor. And in combo situations I can mike my bass.

The Woods and the AI sound different but they both work for me. You are a rather unusual individual that doesn't like the Woods. If you aren't liking much of anything, maybe, as pointed out above, you need to critically assess your bass and its setup.

[funkyfretless]

hey,
thanks guys.
i was lookin at the coda, cause of its portability and ease of use.
i was going to try out a ea cab..ive heard they are the best with the
ww amps. i have the green light model btw.

i am going to be switching basses soon as well as try out the full circle or gage pu.

i just want something that is easy to carry, use in big city(atl) and be loud enough to cove trios, sextets, and big band environments.

evan

plus if i sell the woods, i can get a used coda cheap, get a new pu, and put the rest towards the new bass.

[Marcus Johnson]

Trade ya my series I contra, straight up.

Seriously, I'd be looking at some little EA cab ( I have one, love it), and some Super Velcro (yes, there is such a thing) to attach them to one another. I wouldn't part with the Woods.

[bolo]

Originally Posted by funkyfretless

btw, which version of the ai coda should i get if i end up with it, the series, I, II, or III. the one i played on was a I or II.

If you do the A/B test and decide you're gonna get a Contra/Coda, I'd get a Series III. Smaller than its predecesors. More power, hi-pass / notch filter, combo inputs. FWIW I used a Series I Contra for a while. Now I use an AI head and an EA cab.

If I were you I'd also consider trying a different p/u on the bass you have, since you mentioned you were gonna try the Realist and/or FC soon anyway. They might react completely differently with your Woods. I get what I think are good results with the Rev Solo, but not every bass and bassist does. You could just switch the new p/u over to your new bass down the road too.

[Uncletoad]

That Woods is a nice amp. I'd hang onto that. Of all that stuff on your list it's the only thing I'd keep.

There is no way a coda is going to be better than the woods and a good high fidelity cab. No offense to the AI folks but that downfiring thing isn't going to work in every dump from Manhattan to San Diego but I'd take that Woods you have and an EA M line wizzy 12 into anyplace coast to coast and get a usable sound.

Finally, buy the best bass you can afford. I'll bet the dissatisfaction you have with your sound starts right there.

Oh and I thought both the AMT and the Rev Solo sounded terrible through my Woods. Not all that better through the Focus for that matter. Those aren't two sources I'd pair up.

[bolo]

Originally Posted by Uncletoad

Oh and I thought both the AMT and the Rev Solo sounded terrible through my Woods. Not all that better through the Focus for that matter. Those aren't two sources I'd pair up.

FWIW I've used that pairing and generated a good sound w/ a Focus. And with a D-TAR Solstice into an iAMP-200.

I am not sure where the root problem is in this scenario. If the RS was installed on his Upton by the folks at Upton themselves, you would think it would be set up right and would sound pretty good.

[bribass]

-"I'd take that Woods you have and an EA M line wizzy 12 into anyplace coast to coast and get a usable sound."

Wise words. I use both a AI Focus 2R III AND an old Woods MI -225 w/ my Wizzy M-line 12. Love both heads but,

<in a far away Obiwan voice> 'KEEP THE WOODS'!

Bri

[Uncletoad]

Originally Posted by bolo

FWIW I've used that pairing and generated a good sound w/ a Focus. And with a D-TAR Solstice into an iAMP-200.

Right. Just shows to go ya...ymmv, ecwtv...etc.

[bolo]

Originally Posted by Uncletoad

Right. Just shows to go ya...ymmv, ecwtv...etc.

Indeed. Yeah, I'm still puzzled by this.

funkyfretless, have you tried a different cab than your Epi with everything else the same?

What don't you like about the sound you're getting now? Maybe the bass you have plus the RS plus the Woods is just too bright.

Does your bass sound good to you acoustically?

[funkyfretless]

its verry midragney. the sound is so unberable to my ears.
it looses its acoustic properties in my opinion.

ive only really played the epi ul 122's with it. i use a ber nv610 now...cause its all
i have, talk about overkill

my bass sounds ok acoustically.im looking into something else as soon as the money's good.

what works better the woods, wizzy m 12, and amt bass...
1. realist
2. full circle

thanks,
evan

[bribass]

Originally Posted by funkyfretless

its verry midragney. the sound is so unberable to my ears.
it looses its acoustic properties in my opinion.

ive only really played the epi ul 122's with it. i use a ber nv610 now...cause its all
i have, talk about overkill

my bass sounds ok acoustically.im looking into something else as soon as the money's good.

what works better the woods, wizzy m 12, and amt bass...
1. realist
2. full circle

thanks,
evan

Haven't tried a FC yet, but the Realist w/ Woods and M-line are great w/ my basses. I don't usually use a mic unless I'm putting that signal thru the PA.
I find if you give the mic signal to the PA instead of your rig there are virtually no feedback issues w/it.

FWIW- when I tried an Rev Solo at the Upton shop on my bass briefly I didn't like it at all. Yes, too midrangey.

BG

[funkyfretless]

well guys thanks for your help.
i just bought a m line wizzy 12 and a fc pu.
ill let you all know my synopsis when i get it.

all for now....oh by the way, how do you guys eq your ww with
the amt channel??

evan

[Uncletoad]

Originally Posted by funkyfretless

well guys thanks for your help.
i just bought a m line wizzy 12 and a fc pu.
ill let you all know my synopsis when i get it.

all for now....oh by the way, how do you guys eq your ww with
the amt channel??

evan

I leave my AMT home. I've never got a good sound with that mic through an amp.

Through the PA is a different story.

Try the pickup by itself first. Get used to it in a bunch of different places. If you try to mix sources that you aren't familiar with you'll spend all your time tweaking knobs and not playing bass.

[Marcus Johnson]

Actually, the best sound I've gotten from my AMT was through my Contra. I've given up trying to figure it out.

[robobass]

I know that I will be roundly attacked for saying this, but I just don't get the WW thing. I've never owned one, but I have played on several over the years (although not in the last ten years). I never found the sound or power to be special. In theory and practice, I really find the RMS power claims to be simply implausible. As far as sound, they are OK, but not exceptional. Price? Are you kidding? I currently use a 200w Hartke head that I bought from a rock rehearsal studio for like a hundred bucks. It wasn't loud enough for the customers, but it gives me clean, flat amplification in perfectly acceptable quantities (I've never turned the master gain past 4). I have also used PA amps for my bass in the past from Crown and Carver which gave me good clear sound (and plenty of it) for a small fraction of the cost of a WW. Of course, when you use a simple power amp, you must also bring along a preamp, but most bassists are already doing this. Also, The amps I am talking about are full rack space, so there is some weight/size issue.

Also, while I'm here, I must attack GK. I've owned and used plenty over the years, and found that they have good power combined with light weight and good price. Some amps are flat and some have colour. GK'S have a special colour. To me, they seem to be designed specifically to make your bass suck.

Sorry, I know that's bad, but how many bassists are using one simply because it's light and (relatively) cheap, even though they know they are sacrificing sound? I was one.

So, my solution? Go find yourself a high quality PA or audio power amp on the used market, and invest in a simple preamp like a fishman B-II (which I also find overpriced). You might cut a zero off the cost of one of these overly-hyped amps out there, and end up with even better sound!

Sorry again to be so brutal, but there is a lot in this world that needs to be called to account. The price of bass amplification is one of them!

Robobass

[all_grown_up]

Originally Posted by robobass

I know that I will be roundly attacked for saying this, but I just don't get the WW thing. I've never owned one, but I have played on several over the years (although not in the last ten years). I never found the sound or power to be special. In theory and practice, I really find the RMS power claims to be simply implausible. As far as sound, they are OK, but not exceptional. Price? Are you kidding? I currently use a 200w Hartke head that I bought from a rock rehearsal studio for like a hundred bucks. It wasn't loud enough for the customers, but it gives me clean, flat amplification in perfectly acceptable quantities (I've never turned the master gain past 4). I have also used PA amps for my bass in the past from Crown and Carver which gave me good clear sound (and plenty of it) for a small fraction of the cost of a WW. Of course, when you use a simple power amp, you must also bring along a preamp, but most bassists are already doing this. Also, The amps I am talking about are full rack space, so there is some weight/size issue.

Also, while I'm here, I must attack GK. I've owned and used plenty over the years, and found that they have good power combined with light weight and good price. Some amps are flat and some have colour. GK'S have a special colour. To me, they seem to be designed specifically to make your bass suck.

Sorry, I know that's bad, but how many bassists are using one simply because it's light and (relatively) cheap, even though they know they are sacrificing sound? I was one.

So, my solution? Go find yourself a high quality PA or audio power amp on the used market, and invest in a simple preamp like a fishman B-II (which I also find overpriced). You might cut a zero off the cost of one of these overly-hyped amps out there, and end up with even better sound!

Sorry again to be so brutal, but there is a lot in this world that needs to be called to account. The price of bass amplification is one of them!

Robobass

There are a lot of things a lot of people "don't get". But that doesn't mean that they are not there. A lot of the players who own and love WW amps arrived at them after many years of expensive experimentation. I suppose you can either congratulate yourself on your enlightened state or step back and question what it is you might be missing that so many experienced players do "get". As far as pricing goes I think bass equipment is relatively cheap. In 1964 or so a Dual Showman was $915. What do you suppose that is inflation adjusted? What is $2K for a WW in 1964 $?