Help: AI Coda or Clarus 2R plus a Wizzy?

[MT Spaces]

I'm pretty new to the DB amplification quagmire and could use some of your thoughts and advice. I have a Rev Solo II pickup but the bass just doesn't sound that sweet going through our group's cheapo Mackie PA system. I am about to raid the cookie jar and add some tax refund dough. I think I'm settled on the AI Series III 2-Channel goodies but I am wondering: Coda or Clarus 2R plus a Wizzy 4 Ohm? I just don't think I need the power or the $ spent for the Focus stuff.

I realize that the Clarus 2R option with a Wizzy M-Line is probably about $300 more than the Coda. What would you do and why? Has this question already been covered before? Are the Wizzy M-Line and/or Wizzy 10 in 4 Ohms actually available for purchase?

As long as I'm asking lots of questions ...... since the AI Series III stuff can handle down to 2 Ohms, are there actually speakers that are rated 2 Ohms? Thanks in advance for any enlightenment you can provide.

[drurb]

Originally Posted by Bob Knebel

As long as I'm asking lots of questions ...... since the AI Series III stuff can handle down to 2 Ohms, are there actually speakers that are rated 2 Ohms? Thanks in advance for any enlightenment you can provide.

Usually, cabinets are not rated as low as 2 ohms. Two 4-ohm cabinets in parallel, however, would present a load of 2 ohms. With the AI series equipment, this would be safe. That's the practicality of that rating.

[Bob Branstetter]

IMO, it all depends on the kind of jobs and/or places are you going to be using it. If you play mostly noisy rooms or outdoors, by all means go with the Clarus and a front firing speaker. If the rooms and/or jobs are usually quieter, I would go with the Coda. The Coda would be lighter and easier to setup on the job, plus you can always add a front firing extension speaker (I use an 4ohm Acme B1) when more volume and directionality is needed. The total cost would be only slightly higher than with the Clarus/Wizzy combination. Then you have the best of both worlds.

[bolo]

Bob summarized it perfectly, as usual.

He has a lot more experience than I do. But in my case, I've got a Contra Series I, a Wizzy combo, and one of the M-lines from the original run. Haven't even plugged it in yet, but Rick Jones said he would be building my Focus 2R probably tomorrow.

In most of my gigging situations, the front-firing Wizzy combo works best for my needs. But the Contra's design and sound is so unique - really in a class by itself.

You can order (or pre-order?) an M-line or a Wizzy 10, but I don't know if anybody has them in stock at this time. I'm guessing there would be a wait period 'til they actually start popping out the chute, but exactly how long, I don't know.

[MT Spaces]

Thanks for the thoughts ....... very helpful!

Doctor Upright, your knowledge of the DB, acoustics, and the practical applications of sound equipment has always amazed me here at TalkBass and I have learned a lot from your posts ....... Thanks.

Mr. Branstetter, your comment is just what I needed. I do remember your past posts praising the AI set-up that you work with. My gigs are generally small venues so the Contra otta do fine. Then I can raid the cookie jar later and add a Wizzy 10 or M-Line when the bass speaker elves start cranking them out at the North Pole. Based on our past discussions, I am still hoping your pal "monster bassist" Bob Bowman makes it to Montana to play sometime so I can enjoy him.

Bolo, thanks for your info. I see you have an early vintage Contra for sale in the classifieds. I am sore tempted to get it from you but the newer Series III stuff looks like it would be worth the extra cash for various reasons. Good luck .... I know you'll sell it soon.

[drurb]

Originally Posted by Bob Knebel

Doctor Upright, your knowledge of the DB, acoustics, and the practical applications of sound equipment has always amazed me here at TalkBass and I have learned a lot from your posts ....... Thanks.

You're welcome! Your kind words made my evening!

[bolo]

Originally Posted by Bob Knebel

Bolo, thanks for your info. I see you have an early vintage Contra for sale in the classifieds.

Bob, you're welcome.

An early vintage Contra, huh? Hm, I never thought about it that way. Maybe you're right. The serial number is 3N 0046.

Quite frankly, I am really wavering about whether or not to sell it. It really is very cool in a lot of ways. And like you said here and Bob B. has stated elsewhere, the Series III is even better.

[Bob Branstetter]

Originally Posted by Bob Knebel

Bolo, thanks for your info. I see you have an early vintage Contra for sale in the classifieds. I am sore tempted to get it from you but the newer Series III stuff looks like it would be worth the extra cash for various reasons. Good luck .... I know you'll sell it soon.

One of the nice pluses of owning an AI product has been it's high resale value. I sold my then 5+ year old Contra about a year and a half ago for just $200 less than what I had paid for it new. However, I have a feeling that this is probably going to change (with regard to early series models) when supply finally catches up with demand for the Series III. The Series III's really are superior products. Acoustic Image owner Rick Jones has stated that this model (or at least this cabinet style) will be around a long time because of the high start up costs involved in making the new style moulded cabinet.

[Reefer]

I own a M-Line and a Focus 2R III. IMO this is an okay combination, but the Bergantino HT112 sounds MUCH better with the AI amp and the Berg is easier to move around due to the top handle.

[MT Spaces]

Thanks Reefer, I'll check into the Bergantino HT112 when it comes time to add an external speaker.

Well ..... gear acquisition syndrome really kicked in last night. I've got a St. Paddy's fiddle tune gig coming soon and just have to have the Series III Coda! That black box is rare these days.

I checked all over the country and really wanted to buy from Bob Gollihur since he has been so great to work with on other items. However ..... waiting until the end of April just would not mesh with my GAS impatience.

I think I must have found the only available Coda in the US of A at Redstone Audio in Alabama. Dave McElroy seems great to work with there at Redstone. They have some nice custom built speaker cabs and other AI Series III stuff at competitive prices if anyone else is looking for AI products. Check Redstone Audio out.

I am jacked and can't wait to try out the new amp! Thanks Bob Branstetter, your various posts about the Coda and Series III advantages were so helpful. Your logic seems sound and who can doubt the words of a Semi-Retired Mid-Western Luthier?

[Bob Branstetter]

Originally Posted by Bob Knebel

Thanks Reefer, I'll check into the Bergantino HT112 when it comes time to add an external speaker.

It has an 8 ohm speaker and weighs in at 39lbs (without a case). That's about twice the total weight of the AI Series III Combos.

[MT Spaces]

Originally Posted by Bob Branstetter

It has an 8 ohm speaker and weighs in at 39lbs (without a case).

Whoa, I think I'll pass on that ... pretty much defeats the concept of a lightweight, power-efficient 4 ohm set-up. I don't have a roadie and my bum shoulder has been acting up.

[drurb]

Originally Posted by Bob Knebel

Whoa, I think I'll pass on that ... pretty much defeats the concept of a lightweight, power-efficient 4 ohm set-up. I don't have a roadie and my bum shoulder has been acting up.

Strictly speaking, a 4-ohm speaker is not necessarily any more efficient or sensitive than an 8-ohm speaker. One practical reason for the lower impedance design is that most solid-state amplifier designs can develop more total power into 4 ohms than they can into 8 ohms.

[Reefer]

Originally Posted by Bob Branstetter

It has an 8 ohm speaker and weighs in at 39lbs (without a case). That's about twice the total weight of the AI Series III Combos.

True, but it is only a few lbs more than the M-Line Wizzy that was also being asked about. The HT112 is easier to move and sounds much better than the M-Line with the AI gear.

[robgrow]

As far as sheer performance, there's no contest between an AI Coda vs. a Clarus with a Wizzy. Both amps have the same power, but the Wizzy is far more efficient than the AI Coda's speaker section. The difference in sensitivity between the Wizzy and the Coda's speaker cab is like having an amp that's at least 2 to 4 times more powerful, which is a very significant difference. The max SPL capability with the Wizzy will also be much higher.

The Coda of course is lighter and more compact. For what it can do though, a Wizzy is relatively lightweight, compact and portable, and I find no problems with transporting them whatsoever. I have an original Wizzy and a Wizzy M-Line, and I prefer them to just about any other cab I've tried. A Clarus would have more than enough power to drive a Wizzy for all but the loudest gigs. The Coda's potential is much more limited without adding an extension speaker, but then you've lost the advantage of a single compact package.

[robgrow]

Originally Posted by Reefer

... The HT112 is easier to move and sounds much better than the M-Line with the AI gear.

Not everyone would agree with this statement.

[Bob Branstetter]

Originally Posted by robgrow

As The Coda's potential is much more limited without adding an extension speaker, but then you've lost the advantage of a single compact package.

Not everyone would agree with this statement either.

[drurb]

Originally Posted by robgrow

The difference in sensitivity between the Wizzy and the Coda's speaker cab is like having an amp that's at least 2 to 4 times more powerful, which is a very significant difference. The max SPL capability with the Wizzy will also be much higher.

Speaking of amplifying-- I'd like to amplify this statement. As many of you know, I have discussed this at length in a number of posts, complete with the math and examples. It is a crucial point. Thank you robgrow for bringing it to the fore.

In addition, I agree about the Coda's potential being more limited. It is largely a matter of physics. IMO, under favorable acoustic conditions, the AI designs with down-firing woofers are great and produce some of the best amplified DB sound I have heard. When such conditions are not met, they fall short of what I want and need. That's one reason I use a Wizzy driven by an iamp200. The parametric eq can be a lifesaver.

[Bob Branstetter]

Originally Posted by drurb

In addition, I agree about the Coda's potential being more limited. It is largely a matter of physics. IMO, under favorable acoustic conditions, the AI designs with down-firing woofers are great and produce some of the best amplified DB sound I have heard. When such conditions are not met, they fall short of what I want and need. That's one reason I use a Wizzy driven by an iamp200. The parametric eq can be a lifesaver.

To paraphrase a former President, It all depends on what you mean by potential. I consider the DB sound from the Contra and Coda second to none. On those rare jobs (< 5%) where more loudness is needed than the Series III Coda can provide alone, I use an extension speaker. With the Coda, that gives me two separate speakers which gives me more versatility. The Coda can be placed where it is best for me and the Extension speaker can be placed wherever it will be best for the rest of the band and the audience. On big band jobs or other louder situations, everyone is happy. However, on the great majority of jobs, the extension speaker stays at home (with a flower pot on the top) and I've got everything I need in one very compact, 20 pound, great sounding package. Just plug it in and play.

[drurb]

Originally Posted by Bob Branstetter

To paraphrase a former President, It all depends on what you mean by potential. I consider the DB sound from the Contra and Coda second to none. On those rare jobs (< 5%) where more loudness is needed than the Series III Coda can provide alone, I use an extension speaker. With the Coda, that gives me two separate speakers which gives me more versatility. The Coda can be placed where it is best for me and the Extension speaker can be placed wherever it will be best for the rest of the band and the audience. On big band jobs or other louder situations, everyone is happy. However, on the great majority of jobs, the extension speaker stays at home (with a flower pot on the top) and I've got everything I need in one very compact, 20 pound, great sounding package. Just plug it in and play.

Well, as they say, that's what makes horse-racing. For me, my combo does everything I want as well without the worry of whether the venue will work with the down-firing woofer. It was not overall sound-pressure with which I was concerned in my post. Rather, it is the room/floor/speaker interaction. Granted, the AI works in most situations and sounds great. I just find that that the Wizzy works in more of them and sounds great as well. To each his own.