Looking At Bass Master Pro.. Need Help

bobbykokinos · #1 03-06-2005, 12:27 AM

I've had it with my fishman. I'm looking at getting the Bass Master Pro.

Couple questions.

First, does it look like the wings of my bridge are wide enough to accept the Bass Max?? If not, can I just sand them myself?

Second, is the Bass Master Pro overkill for just jazz playing with the rare, if ever, arco?? I dont mind spending the extra $120 if the sound is going to be substantially different than just going with the Bass Max or Double Big Twin by itself..

The only thing, right now since I've never heard the pickup in person, that is helping me justify the purchase is the fact that I can get a wide variety of sounds. Live and recording would require different sound I would think. Going with the Bass Master Pro would offer me that wide selection. Am I right?

Any help would be appreciated!!

anonymous0726 · #2 03-06-2005, 12:31 AM

Which Fishman do you have?

(Fill out your profile)

bobbykokinos · #3 03-06-2005, 12:35 AM

The cheapy.. BP-100 I think.

anonymous0726 · #4 03-06-2005, 12:47 AM

I'd really consider the new Fishman Full Circle. If you have the right adjusters in your current bridge, of course. Otherwise the price, including a new bridge, would be prohibitive for you, most likely.

bobbykokinos · #5 03-06-2005, 12:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ray Parker

I'd really consider the new Fishman Full Circle. If you have the right adjusters in your current bridge, of course. Otherwise the price, including a new bridge, would be prohibitive for you, most likely.

I've considered the FC but have heard some people with problems..

anonymous0726 · #6 03-06-2005, 12:54 AM

I wouldn't worry about it too much. Some of the early ones had some clinkers in the production run perhaps, but Fishman is quick to rectify this and the pickup is the best that I've ever had on.

bobbykokinos · #7 03-06-2005, 01:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ray Parker

I wouldn't worry about it too much. Some of the early ones had some clinkers in the production run perhaps, but Fishman is quick to rectify this and the pickup is the best that I've ever had on.

Hmm.. I'm not sure if I'm willing to give fishman another chance. This is just MY experience, but anything that I have owned fishman (from DB pickups to acoustic guitar pickups) have just been junk. Maybe its just my bad luck.

Plus, with preamp, we are looking about $340 for the FC.. My spending limit for a PU with pre was right around $250

I appreciate the suggestion though!

anonymous0726 · #8 03-06-2005, 01:29 AM

I've never known about any quality-control issues. The old defrib pickup (that you have) was pretty bad sounding. The FC blows all the others away -- that I've tried, anyhow: Underwood, Wilson, Realist, Polytone, Shadow, Bass Max, Scherlter, etc.

I'm not using a preamp, but I have a Walter Woods and this might nix the need for one, I guess. I've plugged it into a number of different amps, though, and always get as decent a sound as the amp allows -- meaning that a huge slab-amp doesn't really get it, but it's an amp issue and not anything fixable with aother preamp...

Silversorcerer · #9 03-06-2005, 01:48 AM

To answer your original question:
The BassMax is 3/16 inches thick. You bridge wing looks like it might be a bit narrow, but if it is you can dress it to fit the BassMax. Mine is generously flared and I use a maple wedge (K&K recommended) to make it tight. It works great all by itself for pizzacato. Nice tone, great percussive quality. It is quite even across the frequencies. I run it without a pre-amp into a Fender Rad and usually run the amp EQ flat.

I heard and spoke with a fellow at a local club who was using the Bass Master Pro arrangement and that was a notch up for sure. What I noticed is that he was getting no feedback and was using a carved Chinese bass through a big wattage Mesa outfit. It sounded fantastic for the jazz pizzacato he was doing.

When we spoke we both agreed that transducers don't deliver a good bowed sound but do very well for pizzacato. I tend to think the golden trinity system would give that breath to the sound that transducers miss.

Some other options that have impressed me are the Realist, and one of Underwoods systems that is similar to the Bass Master Pro set up. I have heard these in performance use and I would try, if I were you, to get out and hear what some other bassists are using. I have to admit, I am so pleased with my current system that I will try the stuff K&K makes first if I upgrade. The BassMax is a rugged little jewel too. You won't easily damage it.

Silversorcerer · #10 03-06-2005, 01:59 AM

A somewhat separate issue is recording. You probably want to do that with a really high quality condenser microphone;- if possible one that is partial to low frequencies. Next best would be a good condenser mic, next would be a high quality dynamic mic. I think the last thing you get to for recording a DB is a transducer. If you could use a mic live without feedback, that would be the best live sound also. It's just not usually possible.

Bob Gollihur · #11 03-06-2005, 09:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobbykokinos

I've had it with my fishman. I'm looking at getting the Bass Master Pro.

Couple questions.

First, does it look like the wings of my bridge are wide enough to accept the Bass Max?? If not, can I just sand them myself?

Second, is the Bass Master Pro overkill for just jazz playing with the rare, if ever, arco?? I dont mind spending the extra $120 if the sound is going to be substantially different than just going with the Bass Max or Double Big Twin by itself..

The only thing, right now since I've never heard the pickup in person, that is helping me justify the purchase is the fact that I can get a wide variety of sounds. Live and recording would require different sound I would think. Going with the Bass Master Pro would offer me that wide selection. Am I right?

Any help would be appreciated!!

Repeating my response to your emailed query:

You'll likely need to widen the gap a little, it's easily done and instructions are included.

The broader palette of sounds is what the Bass Master Pro offers. Personally, the meat and potatoes comes from the Bass Max, I mix in Double Big Twin for seasoning-- more or less string detail. And since each has its own EQ section you can tune their individual sounds to your bass and preferences.

I agree that a mic is the way to go when recording, but a pickup track can be very good to mix in with the mix, as needed, depending on the session.

bobbykokinos · #12 03-06-2005, 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silversorcerer

Some other options that have impressed me are the Realist, and one of Underwoods systems that is similar to the Bass Master Pro set up. I have heard these in performance use and I would try, if I were you, to get out and hear what some other bassists are using. I have to admit, I am so pleased with my current system that I will try the stuff K&K makes first if I upgrade. The BassMax is a rugged little jewel too. You won't easily damage it.

Do you have the BassMax or Bass Master Pro setup?

As I had told Bob, I'm still tossed up on whether I really need the WHOLE Bass Master Pro setup as opposed to just the BassMax with preamp. Let me preface this by saying, I'm a gadget geek. When I buy anything for my basses, I tend to OVER buy and not use it to its full potential.

Being not familiar with pickups I dont know what to look for. Like I said, I play straight ahead jazz. Hardly, if ever, any arco. I want the big "wooden" DB sound but I also want it defined and not too boomy. I want what ever is going to reproduce the basses sound most acurately (without going to mic ofcourse).

Silversorcerer · #13 03-06-2005, 01:45 PM

After a gig and some sleep....

I am using the BassMax alone, no pre-amp. Nearly flat EQ on my Fender Rad bass amp (has nice compression but only 25 clean Watts with one ten inch in a reflex.) With better amps the BassMax sounds better (like with SWR California Blond). I am a sort of non-gadget freak. I like to keep it simple and only add gadgets after I really understand the limits of the fundamental pieces of equipment I'm already using. You can really change so much with the sound of an instrument just with different strings, plucking technique, etc. I have played EBG for 30+ years and in all that time;- nothing between the amp and the EBG but a connector.

With the BassMax, you have to position it carefully to get a good EG right off of it. There are some other threads on K&K stuff that I have seen recently, so you might check those out with the forum search window. So pre-amps and EQ are fine to have, but you really should be able to get a BassMax to sound good without that. So then after that is working right ...

I think after recently seeing another DB player using the Bass Master Pro that, like others have said, that is probably going to add some details you might miss with just the BassMax. It is enough to me to make it worth the difference and probably is not over-accessorizing. If I upgrade, that is the way I'm leaning because the volume level I am often required to play at would cause a mic to feed back. I think from what you've said about your own style that the Bass Master Pro probably wouldn't disappoint you and would give you some room to "tweak" your sound that the BassMax would not.

Hopefully that is more clear. And transducers are not terrible for recording, just my opinion that mics give a truer sound. Transducers on DBs make them sound kind of like electric bass guitars to my ear.

bobbykokinos · #14 03-06-2005, 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silversorcerer

After a gig and some sleep....

I am using the BassMax alone, no pre-amp. Nearly flat EQ on my Fender Rad bass amp (has nice compression but only 25 clean Watts with one ten inch in a reflex.) With better amps the BassMax sounds better (like with SWR California Blond). I am a sort of non-gadget freak. I like to keep it simple and only add gadgets after I really understand the limits of the fundamental pieces of equipment I'm already using. You can really change so much with the sound of an instrument just with different strings, plucking technique, etc. I have played EBG for 30+ years and in all that time;- nothing between the amp and the EBG but a connector.

With the BassMax, you have to position it carefully to get a good EG right off of it. There are some other threads on K&K stuff that I have seen recently, so you might check those out with the forum search window. So pre-amps and EQ are fine to have, but you really should be able to get a BassMax to sound good without that. So then after that is working right ...

I think after recently seeing another DB player using the Bass Master Pro that, like others have said, that is probably going to add some details you might miss with just the BassMax. It is enough to me to make it worth the difference and probably is not over-accessorizing. If I upgrade, that is the way I'm leaning because the volume level I am often required to play at would cause a mic to feed back. I think from what you've said about your own style that the Bass Master Pro probably wouldn't disappoint you and would give you some room to "tweak" your sound that the BassMax would not.

Hopefully that is more clear. And transducers are not terrible for recording, just my opinion that mics give a truer sound. Transducers on DBs make them sound kind of like electric bass guitars to my ear.

Cool.. Thats the opinion I was looking for, and that I have gotten from other people. BassMax is great but with the whole setup (Bass Master Pro) its wonderful.

We do alot of jazz. But almost sometimes some funk which I'm starting to migrate to DB to play on. I figure the BassMax will be great to get the fat, round sound and the Double Big Twin will get the definition of the 16th note lines.

Thanks!!

Marcus Johnson · #15 03-06-2005, 02:11 PM

I think you'll be happy with the BMP for the types of music you're describing. I had it on my last bass. It's really flexible and versatile. Good bang for the buck.

erik II · #16 03-06-2005, 02:59 PM

A minimalist approach: If you already have a BP100 (that works), you could just get a Bass Max and use them together. That'll give you a set-up similar to the Bass Master Pro.
If your amp has two inputs, you may not need a preamp.

bobbykokinos · #17 03-06-2005, 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by erik II

A minimalist approach: If you already have a BP100 (that works), you could just get a Bass Max and use them together. That'll give you a set-up similar to the Bass Master Pro.
If your amp has two inputs, you may not need a preamp.

Well, I have 30 days to return my BP100 which I bought for $135 at SamAsh (I know I know, too much but I REALLY needed a pickup).. So there is more than half of the BMP..

Thanks for the suggestion but I'll just go with the whole BMP setup. Save me from the fishman headaches I normally get.

Marcus Johnson · #18 03-06-2005, 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by erik II

A minimalist approach: If you already have a BP100 (that works), you could just get a Bass Max and use them together. That'll give you a set-up similar to the Bass Master Pro.
If your amp has two inputs, you may not need a preamp.

Aaack! Sorry, Erik, I have to disagree. I've suffered through the BP-100 experience. It can't be compared to the Double Big Twin (the "other" component of the Bass Master Pro setup). Apples and oranges.

I have the DBT on my current bass, to supplement my AMT mic. It suits me very nicely...sounds good pizz or arco, and it's pretty much invisible on the bass (except for the afterlength-mounted jack). Though it's usually portrayed in the shadow of the Bass Max, I think it stands on its own pretty well. When I play pickup only, it sounds great.

OTOH, I've never been able to get a decent sound out of the BP-100.

hunta · #19 03-07-2005, 06:37 AM

Am I correct in thinking that you could get a Bassmax or a Double Big Twin first, and then later upgrade to the Bassmaster Pro by buying the other and a preamp?

I really am needing to get a pickup, been borrowing a fishman from a friend and it's horrible. My teacher along with another friend of mine have realists, but I can't say I was instantly impressed with the sound (although I don't hear them play amplified much). I think they go for a thinner sound than I like. I want a fat and warm, but clear, pizz sound for jazz and funk. I'd also like to have a nice bow sound if possible.

Bob Gollihur · #20 03-07-2005, 07:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hunta

Am I correct in thinking that you could get a Bassmax or a Double Big Twin first, and then later upgrade to the Bassmaster Pro by buying the other and a preamp?

Yes. You can start with either and later add the other plus a two channel preamp. The DBT does need a preamp in most situations, so it can be best to start with a Bass Max, which corresponds best to the criteria you cite, as it handles a lack of preamp best.