Micing with a bass amp

[e-flores]

So to say the least this thread has saved my life. I will start by saying I am not a double bass player by any means and really have just started to dabble in the double bass. But here's where I was at. I am playing an inexpensive bass that the church I am playing at wanted me to play for a Christmas ensemble deal. Last night I couldn't find a way mic the thing for the life of me. I was trying every mic the church had on its shelves, and there were quite a few, from large condenser mics to a sure beta clip on mic (not sure which one) much like the akg clip ons mentioned earlier in the thread. Needless to say the volume I was getting without feedback was next to none and I tried several miking positions with each mic. I originally was planning on seeing if anyone had tried a mic to preamp to amp setup and to see if that had worked for anyone and when I saw that was working for some people in the beginning of the thread I had high hopes. But when I saw that you guys where using a $30 mic with $10 of modification and getting the sound quality that you guys are talking about I couldn't help but to stop by RS and grab one for myself. I'm going to test out the setup tonight and I'm hoping for the best. Thanks for coming through again fellow talk bassers and huge thanks to farmerdude!

[Mandobassman]

Saved me too. When I started this thread, I was thinking I was going to wind up spending a ton of money to get the sound I was looking for. Farmerdude's RS mic suggestion has given me the sound I was looking for such a stupid low cost. Remember, what really made it work for me was to make sure the mic faces into the bass, instead of facing up. You have to modify the clip somewhat to get it to do this. Otherwise, the mic will pick up more than just the bass and will be a little more prone to feedback. Setting it up this way has allowed me to have my amp directly behind me and the bass with no feedback.

[houblon]

Another success story: I play a carved Martin shop bass. I wrap the mic into a flat rubber band and squeeze the ball into the e-side f-hole. Goes into the fishman pre amp and then into my Polytone. So far I have been playing with a big band and several piano trio gigs at low/medium volume. I had feedback once but got rid of it by throwing the phase switch on the preamp. The sound is a huge improvement over the realist that sounds just too midrangy-piezzo like.

B

[SnowMore]

I am playing in the pit for a show now with the Radio Shack mic. It's sounding great.

And, guys, try the foam wind screen -- super easy and really improved the sound for me.

[Mandobassman]

Originally Posted by houblon

Another success story: I play a carved Martin shop bass. I wrap the mic into a flat rubber band and squeeze the ball into the e-side f-hole. Goes into the fishman pre amp and then into my Polytone. So far I have been playing with a big band and several piano trio gigs at low/medium volume. I had feedback once but got rid of it by throwing the phase switch on the preamp. The sound is a huge improvement over the realist that sounds just too midrangy-piezzo like.

B

What does the preamp do for the tone, if anything. I haven't felt the need for a preamp because I've always thought of it being a tool for gain and impedance matching. I have plenty of gain going straight into my amp, but I wonder how it would affect tone, and whether it would be beneficial for me. The sound with the RS mic by itself is pretty darn good, but I'm always up for improving it more.

[houblon]

I did not do much experimentation. Recording directly from the RS was way too boomy, so I put in the preamp to be able to take off a bit of the lower frequencies. The rest of the eq is flat.

Originally Posted by Mandobassman

What does the preamp do for the tone, if anything. I haven't felt the need for a preamp because I've always thought of it being a tool for gain and impedance matching. I have plenty of gain going straight into my amp, but I wonder how it would affect tone, and whether it would be beneficial for me. The sound with the RS mic by itself is pretty darn good, but I'm always up for improving it more.

[SnowMore]

I just played my first jazz gig with the RS mic. Overall it was very, very good. I played without a pre-amp, and the sound got a bit boomy in the vicinity of open D -- otherwise great.

Moving ahead, I expect to play around with pre-amps and eq. I've been intending to replace my amp for quite some time. Maybe I'll try other, higher-quality mics -- and I would love to have a solution that doesn't need a battery.

But I'm never going back to piezzo. A tiny mic wrapped in a foam wind screen and inserted in the F hole is the centerpiece for me from now on.

[Nathan Levine]

Originally Posted by SnowMore

I just played my first jazz gig with the RS mic. Overall it was very, very good. I played without a pre-amp, and the sound got a bit boomy in the vicinity of open D -- otherwise great.

Moving ahead, I expect to play around with pre-amps and eq. I've been intending to replace my amp for quite some time. Maybe I'll try other, higher-quality mics -- and I would love to have a solution that doesn't need a battery.

But I'm never going back to piezzo. A tiny mic wrapped in a foam wind screen and inserted in the F hole is the centerpiece for me from now on.

MicMore!!! Not the answer for everyone, but when it works, it really works! I have been going to mics first, and then the Erhlund 2nd. My headway pre works great for rolling the woof off.

[Tony Flow MMMM]

Do y'all think I should experiment with another brand? Or stick with the radio shack Check this out on AMZN: Audio-Technica ATR-3350 Lavalier Omnidirectional Condenser Microph... http://amzn.com/B002HJ9PTO

[macdeezy]

I have been looking over this thread for a couple of days and I feel like I'm finally ready to share my technique which has been working successfully for the past few months.

First consideration: Does the venue have a PA?
If yes, i always have my own boom stand and vocal mic (I've switched between a Nady Starpower and Sennheiser e835... either one works fine).

Second consideration: Low frequencies ... HPF or low cut.
is there a high-pass filter (HPF) or low cut? Switch it on...if it doesn't have a HPF just cut those lows and leave the others flat to start then adjust the sound according to the room and the sonic tendencies of your bass.

For microphone placement on a bass, you don't need to boost any lows because the instrument has those frequencies naturally.

I have been experimenting placing the microphone at the f-hole vs infront or in close proximity to the bridge...i have a pretty bright and loud bass so I think the F-hole works better to catch more of the lows...but I still have to be careful because it may feedback if its too close.

Third consideration: Your amplifier.
Yes, use the amp for stage volume. Just a little gain and lower which ever bands you might need to on the eq. This way you and the band can hear some of your sound on stage, while your rich acoustic sound goes out into the house speakers.


My concept of bass sound over the past few years has changed dramatically (I'm still a young dude and need to grow a lot more), but lately I feel like I am finally finding my live sound with this technique.
I also practice and play gigs unplugged whenever i can get away with it...i think doing this develops ones amp/mic'd/live sound because if you start to feel how your bass sounds with no amplification, you will start to realize you don't need much amplification (for most gigs -- bar, church, concert hall, coffee shop) ... hopefully your bass can first be heard by the room acoustically (to some degree) and then gently boost it to rise up in the texture.
I feel the quickest and simplest way to do this is to utilize the PA at any venue you preform at.

What do you guys think?

-Mac

[what the pluck]

I've had the RS mic in my kit for a while. I tried it a while ago through a PA with ordinary results, and good results into an interface for recording. I finally got my wizzy 10 shipped yesterday to match with my acoustic image Clarus that I hadn't used since I bought it. I've gotta say I'm pretty impressed with the sound with the RS mic and this rig.

I changed over the plug for a female 1/4 inch, this along with the little battery box fit into a piece of foam I have fashioned with appropriate holes. I attached this with a Velcro mic lead strap to the tail piece wire at the bottom of the bass in front of the end pin. Run the mic wire behind the tailpiece through the G then E string hole. The mic is in a little piece of foam sitting in the top of the e string F hole. It's pretty neat.


Ultimately it would be great to have a nice phantom powered clip on mic but this works really well and sounds much better then the K & K and sans amp. Eq wise everything is flat with just a bit of a cut to the bass.

Got my sound sorted so I'm a happy plucker now!

[Mandobassman]

Originally Posted by Tony Flow MMMM

Do y'all think I should experiment with another brand? Or stick with the radio shack Check this out on AMZN: Audio-Technica ATR-3350 Lavalier Omnidirectional Condenser Microph... http://amzn.com/B002HJ9PTO

While certainly there are better quality mics out there for this purpose, I think what makes the RS mic work so surprisingly well in this situation is the fact that it has such a limited frequency response and also it is somewhat inefficient. You have to have the mic right on top of the sound source otherwise it doesn't pick up much. That's why it works so well directly inside of the F hole. It is close to it's sound source and doesn't pick up other nearby sounds very well. That makes it good if you are near a drummer because it's less likely to pick up the sound from those drums than a higher quality mic would, and the same attribute makes it less likely to feedback. I have given some thought to using a higher quality lavelier mic, but the sound is so good from this tiny RS mic, and the feedback rejection has been so good, that I don't want to mess with success. My amplified sound has been wonderful.

By the way, Radio Shack sells that exact same mic. I saw it on the shelf next to the one I bought.

[Tony Flow MMMM]

Originally Posted by Mandobassman

While certainly there are better quality mics out there for this purpose, I think what makes the RS mic work so surprisingly well in this situation is the fact that it has such a limited frequency response and also it is somewhat inefficient. You have to have the mic right on top of the sound source otherwise it doesn't pick up much. That's why it works so well directly inside of the F hole. It is close to it's sound source and doesn't pick up other nearby sounds very well. That makes it good if you are near a drummer because it's less likely to pick up the sound from those drums than a higher quality mic would, and the same attribute makes it less likely to feedback. I have given some thought to using a higher quality lavelier mic, but the sound is so good from this tiny RS mic, and the feedback rejection has been so good, that I don't want to mess with success. My amplified sound has been wonderful.

By the way, Radio Shack sells that exact same mic. I saw it on the shelf next to the one I bought.

Well I ordered the audio technica one tonight.. It'll be here by Saturday. Ill let y'all know!

[Tony Flow MMMM]

I got my audio technica in. Messed around with mounting. Maybe I'm doing something wrong but clipped in the F hole it resonates and feeds back. However I found this spot (and I tried many) where it sounds great. Way better than my rubber band mounted shure sm.

I'm very happy with it.

[Tony Flow MMMM]

Originally Posted by Tony Flow MMMM

I got my audio technica in. Messed around with mounting. Maybe I'm doing something wrong but clipped in the F hole it resonates and feeds back. However I found this spot (and I tried many) where it sounds great. Way better than my rubber band mounted shure sm.

I'm very happy with it.

I have since moved it into the F hole. I found it only resonates and feedbacks if I'm standing about 8 foot from the cab. If I stand closer it doesn't.

Also why is it D loves to resonate? I hear this is common.

[mimal]

Originally Posted by Tony Flow MMMM

I have since moved it into the F hole. I found it only resonates and feedbacks if I'm standing about 8 foot from the cab. If I stand closer it doesn't.

Also why is it D loves to resonate? I hear this is common.

Hi,

as the rs is not available here and i like the idea of foammounted in f-hole.. ...but hate picups, preamps, phantom power boxes...too much cables


could the shure sm11 be an option? (dynamic! lavalier mic)
Anyone tried it?

[what the pluck]

Originally Posted by mimal

Hi,

as the rs is not available here and i like the idea of foammounted in f-hole.. ...but hate picups, preamps, phantom power boxes...too much cables

could the shure sm11 be an option? (dynamic! lavalier mic)
Anyone tried it?

Hi there,
Where are you located. The one I use is actually a 'realistic' (im in australia) which I think is the same as RS anyway. Maybe try another brand that's available where you are that has the same frequency response, they are pretty cheap and might be worth a shot before spending more on the shure which I'm guessing is not real cheap.
Cheers

[mimal]

Originally Posted by what the pluck

Hi there,
Where are you located. The one I use is actually a 'realistic' (im in australia) which I think is the same as RS anyway. Maybe try another brand that's available where you are that has the same frequency response, they are pretty cheap and might be worth a shot before spending more on the shure which I'm guessing is not real cheap.
Cheers

Hi, i am in austria

i could not fint the frequ. Response for the rs,

Tony flow could be on the right way with the Audio-Technica ATR-3350

[mimal]

Originally Posted by Tony Flow MMMM

I got my audio technica in. Messed around with mounting. Maybe I'm doing something wrong but clipped in the F hole it resonates and feeds back. However I found this spot (and I tried many) where it sounds great. Way better than my rubber band mounted shure sm.

I'm very happy with it.

did you try it packet in foammute?

are you talking about the sm11?

[what the pluck]

Originally Posted by mimal

Hi, i am in austria

i could not fint the frequ. Response for the rs,

Tony flow could be on the right way with the Audio-Technica ATR-3350

hi,
50-15000 Hz
low impedence
omnidirectional

Do you have 'Tandy' in Austria? Maybe whatever they carry is the same thing?

cheers