Microphones for live Double Bass Amplification

[LyonsBass]

To make it simple...

I`m basically looking for a mic that I can use to amplify my double bass for live performance, something with minimal feedback + a clamp to go on the bass (that does not get in the way of bowing)
I play in many venues :\ Cafes to Pubs to Halls etc....
I`m after the best sound quality for piz and arco playing (since I play a combination of both live)
I have a large diaphragm condenser microphone I use for home recording, and it comes through perfectly, I would not dare to use it live though.

Also I have a realist pickup, it sounds alright but it has never sounded great live, (I have a decent pre-amp + gear etc etc...) It has lots of Feedback when I dont physically mute strings...but that is another story + thread, not this one.
I don`t want it to turn into a "You should do Xy to make your realist sound good live!"

Any help is greatly appreciated

(Yes... I have been through the newbie links and searched for Live double bass mics, I can`t find any substantial information on LIVE mics...If I have missed something, some thread? link me please)

[Jaromir]

About two years ago I was lending my bass to Scott Colley for his performance with J.Mc Gaslin and Antonio Sanchez.
It was a middle size venue, about 150 - 200 people.
He took his Audiotechnica ATM 35-pro, attached at the bridge adjuster wheel, the mic pointing next to the round hole at the upper end of G side f-hole.
Only the mic line went to the P.A., my Markbass combo was used just as a stage monitor.
This was the best amplified bass sound I've ever heard. All the details, sustain, great. Not just the umph I usualy hear when amplifying with mic.

[groooooove]

Originally Posted by Jaromir

About two years ago I was lending my bass to Scott Colley for his performance with J.Mc Gaslin and Antonio Sanchez.
It was a middle size venue, about 150 - 200 people.
He took his Audiotechnica ATM 35-pro, attached at the bridge adjuster wheel, the mic pointing next to the round hole at the upper end of G side f-hole.
Only the mic line went to the P.A., my Markbass combo was used just as a stage monitor.
This was the best amplified bass sound I've ever heard. All the details, sustain, great. Not just the umph I usualy hear when amplifying with mic.

i saw Scott play with antonio sanches a while back at Jazz standard in NYC, and i do recall him having a wonderfull tone.

there's so many clip-on mics, i've only used one and got all thumpy-subs and nothing else... since then i've just been using pickups.

[Ric Vice]

Originally Posted by LyonsBass

To make it simple...

I`m basically looking for a mic that I can use to amplify my double bass for live performance, something with minimal feedback + a clamp to go on the bass (that does not get in the way of bowing)
I play in many venues :\ Cafes to Pubs to Halls etc....
I`m after the best sound quality for piz and arco playing (since I play a combination of both live)
I have a large diaphragm condenser microphone I use for home recording, and it comes through perfectly, I would not dare to use it live though.

Also I have a realist pickup, it sounds alright but it has never sounded great live, (I have a decent pre-amp + gear etc etc...) It has lots of Feedback when I dont physically mute strings...but that is another story + thread, not this one.
I don`t want it to turn into a "You should do Xy to make your realist sound good live!"

Any help is greatly appreciated

Lyonbass,
With the newer mics and pickups it's getting closer to the "my bass only louder" scenario . I have a DPA 4099B that I send FOH and it works very well. I recently removed my Realist and use an Ehrlund Pickup and Pre amp it sounds even better. Realists sound fine as long as you don't have to play at high volume levels.

Ric

[Marc Piane]

Originally Posted by Jaromir

He took his Audiotechnica ATM 35-pro, attached at the bridge adjuster wheel, the mic pointing next to the round hole at the upper end of G side f-hole.
Only the mic line went to the P.A., my Markbass combo was used just as a stage monitor.

That's the exact setup and mic placement I've been using except I have a different amp for stage monitoring. <---click. For the ~$150 for the AT35pro I think it is a great mic. I'm sure the DP or the AMT mics are better but also several times the price. At that price I just keep it in my bass bag for gigs I can do ampless and if it breaks I'll just buy another.

[Roger Davis]

I'm very happy with my DPA 4099. I put it into my AI Clarus, chanel 2 ( supplies phantom pwer as well) and you can bypass the main amp with that channel, so it goes into a QSC K10 on a stand above the shoulder. Great feedback -free sound. Then an Underwood pickup goes to Channel 1 and out to a 10" Wizzy to tighten the bottom and provide backline monitoring. When you see it on stage it's not as complicated as it sounds.

Of course, it's always nice to have FOH but this doesn't always happen.

[ee-san]

Been using the original ATM35 for years (now it's the ATM350, I believe). The mic is clipped to the bridge adjustment wheel and pointed upward between the bridge feet toward the fingerboard, parallel to the top plate of the bass. If I need a bit more bass for the room I angle the mic slightly toward the top plate. The setup works well with an amp or through a PA. The sound is full-range and natural, lots of overtones. I keep a pickup in the bass bag but haven't used it in three years of monthly gigs.

[JAKBOUND]

I am curious as to how loud you could go with this rig. I am currently running a Genz Benz Shuttle 6 2 by 10 combo with a wizzy 12 directed at the drummer and second guitar at the other side of the stage. A recently arrived Headway pre-amp improved the sound I hear on stage enough that I am considering further improvements. I don't need stupid loud as I am fortunate enough to have fellow musicians who understand the benefits of reasonable stage volume.
I am thinking mic into headway into K10, and full circle into platinum pro into Genz Benz.
If this works well I would replace the GB with a focus and another Wizzy M line 12. (adding a tone hammer pre for doubling). Headway would ride along as a problem solver as required. Anyone have any thoughts on this?

[Jaromir]

Originally Posted by fingers

That's the exact setup and mic placement I've been using except I have a different amp for stage monitoring. For the ~$150 for the AT35pro I think it is a great mic. I'm sure the DP or the AMT mics are better but also several times the price.

Acording to Scott Coley the ATM 35pro is better than the AMT. He is endorsing the AMT but using the ATM 35pro instead (or at least was using two years ago).

[agedhorse]

Originally Posted by ee-san

Been using the original ATM35 for years (now it's the ATM350, I believe). The mic is clipped to the bridge adjustment wheel and pointed upward between the bridge feet toward the fingerboard, parallel to the top plate of the bass. If I need a bit more bass for the room I angle the mic slightly toward the top plate. The setup works well with an amp or through a PA. The sound is full-range and natural, lots of overtones. I keep a pickup in the bass bag but haven't used it in three years of monthly gigs.

Correct, now the ATM-350, this is probably the best overall solution in terms of simplicity at the gig, sound quality, convenience of placement, reliability and cost. I have seen this type of set-up used reliably with several acts on the road.

[agedhorse]

Originally Posted by JAKBOUND

I am curious as to how loud you could go with this rig. I am currently running a Genz Benz Shuttle 6 2 by 10 combo with a wizzy 12 directed at the drummer and second guitar at the other side of the stage. A recently arrived Headway pre-amp improved the sound I hear on stage enough that I am considering further improvements. I don't need stupid loud as I am fortunate enough to have fellow musicians who understand the benefits of reasonable stage volume.
I am thinking mic into headway into K10, and full circle into platinum pro into Genz Benz.
If this works well I would replace the GB with a focus and another Wizzy M line 12. (adding a tone hammer pre for doubling). Headway would ride along as a problem solver as required. Anyone have any thoughts on this?

Just a thought that this sounds more complicated than you might wish to deal with out on a gig... a lot of pieces to keep track of and if by chance you share the stage with another act or two, more time to set up than you might have available. If you are traveling a lot, again that's more pieces to deal with on the road, at the airport (fly dates) and customs (international dates). Nothing worse than leaving a critical part somewhere you can't quite remember

[JAKBOUND]

I guess I'm not the average gigger here as all the gigs are at a club 2 miles from the front door. Historically I have forgotten the Precision and gone back home for it!!
In addition back in the day I was a start up engineer on gas turbine generator packages, so I am used to lots of cables etc.
The other thought I had was replace the 2x10 with the 1X12 on the GB and run the mic and the FC through the headway into the effects return on the GB. Using the regular front end of the GB for the Precision, and the headway for upright. I would use the Wizzy as the extension.

[bdowd]

My vote is for the dpa, really great FOH sound, and, it can just live on your bass with the new afterlength attachment.

[agedhorse]

Originally Posted by JAKBOUND

Historically I have forgotten the Precision and gone back home for it!!

I left a large frame console at a regular venue once, it was a back-up that I was supposed to bring back to the shop on the truck. THAT was an embarassing phone call.

The reason I mentioned this is because for many users, the added complexity is responsible for additional headaches at the gig at the worst possible time for little if any real benefit in the context of a live gig.

[Ric Vice]

Originally Posted by agedhorse

I left a large frame console at a regular venue once, it was a back-up that I was supposed to bring back to the shop on the truck. THAT was an embarassing phone call.

The reason I mentioned this is because for many users, the added complexity is responsible for additional headaches at the gig at the worst possible time for little if any real benefit in the context of a live gig.

Agedhorse,
I once left the house and arrived at the gig only to look around and discover that I'd left the Bass at home. Fortunately, I wasn't that far away from the house, so a quick trip home to recover the bass did the trick.
I do agree though, simpler is better. I used to bring two Bose 801's a Walter Woods and a Fishman Bass Blender. Now it's the bass, a Walter Woods, and a VL 108. Soon it will be the bass and a very small combo.

Ric

[LyonsBass]

Jaromir - I Will look into that Mic thanks for your input
Also any users of the Audio-Technica PRO 35, Do you experience any unwanted feedback when playing?



Also what is the difference between the ATM350 and ATM35? Is the 350 basically the upgraded new version?
http://www.audio-technica.com/cms/wi...98/index.html/
http://www.audio-technica.com/cms/wi...78/index.html/
Which would be more suitable for live Double Bass amplification?
I`m not an expert on the Specs but the 35 has a Freq response of 30-20,000 Hz
while the 350 has 40-20,000 Hz.
The 350 has 50ohms impedance while the 35 has 200... What difference does this make?


The 4099B Microphone looks very nice BUT extremely expensive, definitely can not afford that.


Also sorry for the Noob-ism, What is an explanation of FOH? Front of House?
So when somebody says "really great FOH sound", are they referring to the sound being quite adequate for the venues equipment/acoustics?

[tito mangialajo]

...and wich is better for double bass: ATM350 or PRO35?

[Jaromir]

Originally Posted by tito mangialajo

...and wich is better for double bass: ATM350 or PRO35?

That is the question. According to the manufacturer the 350. However, the slightly reduced frequency response of the pro35 might be just the right thing: we need to cut both the excesive bass and trebles anyway.

[Roger Davis]

Originally Posted by agedhorse

Just a thought that this sounds more complicated than you might wish to deal with out on a gig... a lot of pieces to keep track of and if by chance you share the stage with another act or two, more time to set up than you might have available. If you are traveling a lot, again that's more pieces to deal with on the road, at the airport (fly dates) and customs (international dates). Nothing worse than leaving a critical part somewhere you can't quite remember

No, it's not as bad as that. Given that on most gigs I take two speakers anyway, all that my setup requires is a stand and two extra leads. Using the second channel on the Clarus means that I don't need a Headway anymore.

I could go back to a simple hybrid and combo, which is what I did for many, many years before I discovered TB, but a few more bits added to the chain gives a massive improvement to the bass sound. I am happy to cart this stuff around for a good sound and I'm sure there are others here who would do the same.

PS I haven't forgotten anything since I wax a trombone player and I had been cleaning the slide. I turned up at the gig with only half a tb.

[tito mangialajo]

but the hypercardioid pattern of DPA4099 is better than the cardioid pattern of the PRO35? is here the diference in cost?
the price of PRO35 is very interesting comparing to DPA, but the risk of picking up more sound from the drums maybe increases a lot. opinions?