pickup for loud music!

[tzigani]

Same question about pickups but is my specific situation...
I need a pickup that can easily pass through a loud and crasy band with drums, percussions, 4 winds, accordeon, everything almost allways playing on full power. I think it's not the "my bass but louder" one, but one that can give me some support and to drummer also.
I'm using bass max K&K one and allways have problems, feedback (sound technicians always have to cut out low frequencies), without any definition, no band member hears it. There's a solution without having to buy a Electric upright bass?

I'm also using a Samsamp bass driver as preamp but maybe it's also good to have a nice amp too no?

I'm freaking out because here in portugal there's no music store with pickups you can try out.

If there's someone that can help me it would be nice.
Thanks
Pedro

[Francois Blais]

You probably want a magnetic pickup.
It won't work with gut strings though.
There's a guy selling his own mag pups on the Classifieds.
Custom Magnetic pickups for upright Bass

[salcott]

Sorry to say, your ultimate solution is probably gonna be an EUB. With a loud band, the body of an double bass is pretty much nothing but a feedback generator. When I got my Merchant Vertical Bass, it solved the problems inherent in playing with loud bands, and has been a great instrument in general. If you're really committed to upright bass, you could check out the Pierre Josephs string charger-I had one on the VBass, and it sounded pretty good. The pickup Francois linked to looks cool as well.

[Silversorcerer]

I used to think that an EUB was the ultimate way. Until I got an AI Coda. AI has this sweepable notch or high pass shelf that also reverses the phase of the speaker so it is opposite to the phase of the vibrating bass top. That one little feature makes it a formidable tool in the arsenal against feedback. If you use the post EQ direct out, the signal to the board is also phase reversed. I use it with a mini condenser mic and a K&K bassmax run into separate channels. I only use the pre-amps and EQ on the AI channels. See my profile for specifics on my gear. I don't use any separate mic or piezo pre-amps. These would be redundant.

Sure it is an expensive amp. But it eliminates the need for a host of other band-aid solutions. It is loud enough with an extension speaker for out door performances. The sweepable notch can tame most room resonant frequencies also. The K&K bassmax is one of the best pick-ups as far as feedback goes. Certainly a magnetic pick-up might do better but it sounds like an EBG mostly.

Your intuition about a nicer amp is truer than true.

[seamonkey]

Consider a Feedback Exterminator/suppressor. They can toss in a very narrow notches that suppress the feedback but allow the bass to still sound natural.

[Carl Johnson]

Reversing the phase between the speaker and bass top is really a 1/2 phase delay (I think) which in my understanding means that depending on the room, you could have walls at a distance which create a standing wave and give you the feed back again.

Oh I get it, you phase shift then notch out the affending bit of spectrum. Would be helpful, can you specify the width of the notch filter?

Truth be told I sometimes wish for a EUB or a baby bass.

How do the rockabilly guys do it?

[Peck_Time]

The position of your bass and your amp is crucial in these situations. Get the amp away from your bass and get your bass away from the things that make it feed back. Also try a rag through the afterlength to dampen off vibrations.

I use a Fullcircle pickup and can get stupidly loud. +1 on the AI amps too for stage monitoring.

There are a number of good other threads if you use the search function too...(and fill out your profile! I checked to see what amp/ bass you were using and got nothing).

[robobass]

A lot of it has to do with the bass itself. My first bass had a very soft thin top. Feedback was always a problem no matter what PU or amp I used, and the bass was a big damned drum mic as well. Bill Merchant has had a lot of success with improving the punch and clarity of a bass by adding a large patch to the bridge/soundpost area and fitting a taller bassbar. This even works well on plywoods if you're willing to spend the money.

You might try to trade your bass in for something more suitable to your needs. It won't necessarily mean spending more money. Of course, going to an EUB will solve the problem completely, but then you may not get the tone you want.
Good Luck!
Robobass

[wingnut]

I've posted this before and you could probably find it with a search, but here's the short version. Your bass has more to do with feedback than your pick up does. If your pick up is installed correctly. Use some plastic tubing that is used for gaslines and weave it around and through the afterlength on your bass. Put a tennis ball on your endpin. Wrap big rubber bands around the tuning keys. Shove waterpipe insulation (looks like those long tubes little kids use as floaties) into your bass until it is full of them. Wrap duct tape around the feet of your bridge. These are the things that "rockabilly" players do. This is what I have to do as I never know what kind of stage I'll be playing on.

[clink]

Full Circle

[Touch]

I agree. I switched from a Bass Max to a Full Circle because I was having lots of feedback issues on multiple stages. After making that switch I have had much less feedback trouble.

The Full Circle has much more presence in the midrange and it also doesn't have the extreme (i.e. infrasonic) power sucking low end response that the Bass Max had. I am very happy with the Full Circle even when it gets stupid loud. Another feedback reduction trick is to put some damping (i.e. foam or a towel) between the tailpiece and the top. Search the forums... plenty of info on this trick.

[pauldebass]

I've played and play with some loud bands... I bring a large amp. My ply bass has an underwood pickup, I use a preamp... I've had a number of them, my fav at the moment is BBE's accoustimax http://www.bbesound.com/products/sto...imax/index.asp
but key for me is bringing a big rig, I've used an 8x10 cab. at the moment I'm using a 2x12 with either a 2x10 or 4x10 depending on the room. just a 15 or a 4x10 cab won't cut it. You need to move air.

[Silversorcerer]

Originally Posted by Carl Johnson

Reversing the phase between the speaker and bass top is really a 1/2 phase delay (I think) which in my understanding means that depending on the room, you could have walls at a distance which create a standing wave and give you the feed back again.

Oh I get it, you phase shift then notch out the affending bit of spectrum. Would be helpful, can you specify the width of the notch filter?

Truth be told I sometimes wish for a EUB or a baby bass.

How do the rockabilly guys do it?

No, the notch width and cut (-18 dB) are preset, but the valley point is selected by a sweeping knob. So you just turn the notch on (pushbutton selects), turn up until a bit of feedback starts and turn the knob until you hit it. In most rooms, it works wonders. I don't put any crazy stuff on my bass, it is clean of damping devices. I had it cranked up really loud at a local jazz club here. I had it running direct out post EQ to the house sound. It was rockin'.

[Francois Blais]

Originally Posted by Touch

The Full Circle has much more presence in the midrange and it also doesn't have the extreme (i.e. infrasonic) power sucking low end response that the Bass Max had.

Fdeck's hi-pass/preamp is a wonder for that!
All piezo users should use a hi-pass filter to remove those very low frequency components.

[stockbass]

a couple of suggestions (in no particular order):

- try to have a good string height. Light strings are also more sensible.
- use an eq to dial out low requencies. Rooms tend to emphazise the rumble, so cut at least at 40 hz.
- Try a parametric eq.
- Use your fellow musician when finding a good amped tone. They might prefer a sound that you wouldn't choose by yourself.
- aviod standing in front of your amp. Try different places. Sometimes the best position is not very obvious.
- dampen the strings after the bridge
- basses that I've used equiped with the K&K have always been prone to feedback. I suggest to try the realist or if you can afford the wilson pu
- deader basses work often better than basses with big acoustic sound.
- deader basses can also give a more effective sound through a piezo than "better" basses
- use cloth and damp all strings just at the end of the bridge. It will deaden the sound, but might work if used carefully

btw accordeons are in my experience very sensitive to feedback, so you should be able to find a solution. Good luck!

[bolo]

Originally Posted by Carl Johnson

How do the rockabilly guys do it?

Squeeze it between their legs.

[countrybass]

Some of us rockabilly guys use gut strings.A common rig is a SVT, a string bass that has less acoustic qualities,and a generous use of tone control. Carl,what kind of equipment do you use? Steel strings or gut? What type of pickup and amp? What kind of bass,carved or plywood? What type of tone do you try to achieve,lots of low end? All of this can contribute to how loud you can amp your bass without feedback.

[fokof]

My experience;

- When a feedback is occuring , moving a couple of inches can often do the trick. That will work for some frequencies depending of the distance of the feedback source problem. ( your amp, stage monitors , PA )

-Have a good REAL parametric EQ. It's like swiss knife for frequencies.
But learn to use it , like compression , EQing can do big dammage if not used right.
Very important; Have one that has bandwidth control.

-In some extreme brownish conditions ( ) , I cut everything below 90hz , I feel the lows from the PA anyways.....
As long as I hear the pitch...

[Jeremy Morgan]

I've found the Bass max to be one of the best as far as feedback resistance goes.

Make sure that it is fitted into the wing of the bridge fairly tightly. If it is too loose its output will be low, you'll boost the gain on the preamp/amp; this is more likely to generate feedback. When I used the Bass Max I found that this made quite a difference.

Also cut (EQ) some of the low end (bass frequencies). I find most pickups tend to exaggerate the low end, which is where most feedback is generated on the db.

[bolo]

Originally Posted by francois

Fdeck's hi-pass/preamp is a wonder for that!
All piezo users should use a hi-pass filter to remove those very low frequency components.

Plus the HPF-Pre has a phase reversal switch, which can also sometimes help w/ feedback like others have noted above.