Preamps

[bopeuph]

I've noticed there are a few preamps that specialize in pickups for uprights. But I was just wondering, will any preamp work, like the sans amp DI preamp? I'm wondering for gigs where I need to make quick changes from upright to electric. I tried a small mixer (MIDIman), but plugging my upright into a mixer lost me all the lows. I've been wondering what else I could do. Right now, I just hold up everyone while I make the switch, but I would like to try to speed that up.

Nick

[Christopher]

Any preamp should work, provided that its input impedance (roughly) matches that of the pickup. Acoustic pickups have impedances in the megaohm range, so the preamp should also have an input impedance of at least 1 megaohm.

The Sansamp Para DI should work fine, as should any box built for acoustic guitar.

[drurb]

It's that the pre-amp needs to "match" the internal impedance of the pickup. Rather, it is that the pre-amp should properly load the pickup. In the case of piezos, a proper load is typically 1 Mohm or higher. In addition, some pre-amps are "voiced" such that they do not have a flat frequency response (e.g., L.R. Baggs GigPro). I really don't like that practice and the manufacturer's idea of what the voicing should be may not at all square with yours. If you want a nice pre-amp/adjustable high-pass filter that is optimized for piezo pickups, I suggest you contact fdeck right here on TB.

[gnergaard]

You'll get lots of good advice from this site on ways to do it.
For my doubling gigs (almost everything I do these days) I always try to use two separate preamps or channels- one for electric and one for upright. For small stuff I use (and love) a recent model walter woods with two channels. For larger venues and outdoor stuff I've been using a Demeter HBP-1 preamp for upright and a Kern ip777 for electric, both cascaded into the same poweramp and speakers.
I really like the Demeter for upright- very open and detailed sounding and having a switchable, fully parametric EQ makes it much easier to deal with feedback issues.
In any case, the first recommendation of only using a pre with a 1 mega ohm or greater input impedance is important. I would add that in my experience other important features are a flexible parametric EQ (usfull for eliminating feed back), and a D.I. out that can be either pre or post the EQ you need for your stage sound. Also, a mute button is NEVER a bad thing.
What other equipment are you going to be using?
Good luck!

[bopeuph]

Originally Posted by gnergaard

What other equipment are you going to be using?

So far, I have this old Hughes & Kettner cabinet that was given to me. The speaker was crap, so I put in an EA 15" speaker (probably around 400 watts). The cool thing about this cabinet, though, is that it has this double space rack built right into the body. So eventually, I'd like to get a good double space head and fit it in there. I've heard a lot of good things about the Peavey T-Max, and I know I like the GK heads, but the good ones are pretty pricey.

At the moment, I'm powered with a QSC MX 1500. Only one of the two 350 watt amps inside work, but that's good enough for me right now.

The preamp I'm borrowing (considering buying, but I don't know if I want it, and I've been borrowing it for six months now, heh) is a Peavey Probass 1000. It sounds good, but this one would need some work, as the direct out doesn't work, and I think a few other outs don't work, and the full range out to the power amp is alarmingly loose, and I can't seem to tighten it. No one in town does work on solid state stuff, either, so I'm on my own with it, if I want to buy it.

My pickup is a Fishman, but I really want an Underwood or a Realist. My teacher has an Underwood, and it sounds great. I don't mind the sound of the Fishman TOO much, but the way it was designed to attach to the instrument causes quite a bit of audible sounds, whether it's plugged in or not.

Nick

[anon_6j591b0]

Someone pointed this out in a recent thread and I thought it looked like a lotta bang for the buck: http://www.d-tar.com/solstice.shtml

[gnergaard]

Sounds to me like you've got the beginnings of a good rig.
I used to use one of those EVM-15" speakers and it was pretty darn fantastic. And LOUD. It will take loads of power so I'd really recommend getting the other channel on the power amp fixed so that you have the option of bridging both sides of the amp into a single speaker. Even if you don't get tons more volume by doing this, you will get more headroom and that is the most important thing to good amplified acoustic tone, IMO.
The D-tar preamp mentioned previously is a very good choice for Upright, but only mediocre for electric in my experience. I have an old Raven Labs dual preamp (PMBII) that is a similar design that I never use anymore since I brought the 'woods. It's decent for upright and I actually like it a lot for electric and I used it on a bunch of recording sessions with great results. I might consider selling it- PM me if you are interested.
Other than these mini cigar box-sized pres, which are very portable, your only other options might be rackmount pres. They'll be bulky but there's lots of choices, they're easy to buy used and then sell to someone else if it isn't the sound you are looking for. Or an EBS micro bass might be a good choice...check it out on line.
I have nothing against Peavey (I use a peavey power amp) but the Peavey preamps I've used are much more geared to electric bass and seem to color the signal alot with low mids. Not ideal for acoustic in my experience.

[bopeuph]

So then, a pattern that I'm seeing (correct me if I'm wrong) is it's probably better for a separate preamp for the electric and upright?

Nick

[anon_6j591b0]

Originally Posted by gnergaard

I have an old Raven Labs dual preamp (PMBII) that is a similar design that I never use anymore since I brought the 'woods. It's decent for upright and I actually like it a lot for electric and I used it on a bunch of recording sessions with great results. I might consider selling it- PM me if you are interested.

Contact him. For what it is it's excellent and you can be sure if you don't buy it someone else will...and it's not being made anymore so they aren't going to get easier to find in the future. I've had an original PMB I that has been such a great piece of gear in a variety of situations I'd never sell it even though I don't always use it for every gig anymore.

And yes, a separate preamp for the upright is usually the best approach.

[bopeuph]

Now, I have been thinking about getting a good double space head to fit into that slot on my cab. What about this: My upright goes through its own preamp, then both basses through the mixer, then out to the head? Is that a good idea, or am I making it too complicated?

Nick

[Kevin Hsieh]

I just got a FishmanProEQ from 61pollman. Great stuff. Running my underwood through it

i'm currently gassing on this though
http://www.raven-labs.com/mainframe.html
once i get my david gage realist...

[gnergaard]

Bob gollihur is selling this at a very good price. It will do everything that the Raven Labs I have would do and to boot has optional Mic pres as well.
Please forgive this little bit of evil bay posting- I promise it's for convenience only and I am not the seller of this item. Thanks.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tchlink:top:us

Just an option for you.

[gnergaard]

Originally Posted by bopeuph

Now, I have been thinking about getting a good double space head to fit into that slot on my cab. What about this: My upright goes through its own preamp, then both basses through the mixer, then out to the head? Is that a good idea, or am I making it too complicated?

Nick

I've done that with the raven labs pmb II before with great results. BUT, again, the higher the impediance of the input of your amp (head- the one you don't have but want to buy), the better. It's easy to imagine getting distortion by overdriving the second pre in the chain. An even better option is to run the blender into the effects return, thus bypassing the preamp stage in the head (at least with most heads).
An EVEN better option, IMO, is to fix the power amp you have and just run the blender into that. You'd have to spend a lot of money to get an 'alll in one' amp head with a better power section than the amp you have.
Funny how musicians end up having to learn all about this electronics mumbo-jumbo stuff just to play music. Wish I could take all the time I spent figuring this stuff out and just practice instead.

[gnergaard]

Originally Posted by jbonny

Contact him. For what it is it's excellent and you can be sure if you don't buy it someone else will...and it's not being made anymore so they aren't going to get easier to find in the future. I've had an original PMB I that has been such a great piece of gear in a variety of situations I'd never sell it even though I don't always use it for every gig anymore.

And yes, a separate preamp for the upright is usually the best approach.

You're giving me cold feet! I have to say honestly though that if I did sell the Raven labs PMBII I'd probably end up buying one of those DTAR solstice units, which is the reason for the above post. The addition of the mic pre makes the DTAR solstice one VERY versatile box. The Raven Labs PMBII is excellent for blending two instrument level signals but it isn't so good at blending a mic with a peizo pick up, as double bassists are often doing these days.
OR if I was a rich man, rich man, I'd by a Summit mic pre, DI box. Those things sound amazing.

[anon_6j591b0]

Originally Posted by gnergaard

You're giving me cold feet! I have to say honestly though that if I did sell the Raven labs PMBII I'd probably end up buying one of those DTAR solstice units, which is the reason for the above post. The addition of the mic pre makes the DTAR solstice one VERY versatile box. The Raven Labs PMBII is excellent for blending two instrument level signals but it isn't so good at blending a mic with a peizo pick up, as double bassists are often doing these days.
OR if I was a rich man, rich man, I'd by a Summit mic pre, DI box. Those things sound amazing.

Before ya sell the PMB and replace it with the "more versatile" D-TAR let me point out if it were all about function we'd all be playing Sadowsky Fender knockoffs through David Eden amps. It's about SOUND and the PMB sounds great!
And if you add, as I have done, something like an FMR Audio RNP mic preamp the Raven Labs PMB mixes a piezo an mic just fine....and you now own a studio quality dual channel mic preamp. There is no one magic piece of gear and collecting specific high end peices for specific tasks is the best approach. You really want the shyte though? Look at one of these: http://www.mercenary.com/po50sichmicp.html

edit: actually having had the money and more recently the time and access to some very good audio guys to fool around with some high end gear I'm becoming more of the opinion that the piezo of your choice plugged into a GK MB150 is the best way for me. mics used through a personal amp follow the law of steeply diminishing returns and their biggest benefit is good sound through a PA...and that's the soundman's problem. dang, speaking of time i gotta go hang greenscreen now so flash gordon can fly....

[bopeuph]

Originally Posted by gnergaard

An EVEN better option, IMO, is to fix the power amp you have and just run the blender into that. You'd have to spend a lot of money to get an 'alll in one' amp head with a better power section than the amp you have.

A friend gave this amp to me. He found it sitting out in the rain. I asked him about repairing it, and he told me he already inquired, but that he was told the other channel couldn't be fixed. At the same time, the only shop in town that I know of (besides Guitar Center) doesn't fix power amps. This guy only does tube amp work. How would I go about fixing it?

Nick

[bopeuph]

Whoops, and looking up this amp, it's 750 watts a channel, not 350.

Nick

[bopeuph]

I just grabbed a BBE 383 from a friend. That should be sufficient for an electric bass for now, right? I've heard lots of good things about this pre. Still in the market for something for the upright, though.

Nick