Puny Beta 57

[Ike Harris]

I've been using an Audix D4 stuffed in foam under the bridge for a pretty good low-volume gig sound. It seems quite deeper sounding than the two SM 58s I have. On seeing recommendations for the Beta 57, I won one on ebay and just got it in. It's supposedly brand new, looks it and packed as though it hasn't been used - has a really puny sound compared to the others mentioned here. It's got to be defective. The seller, although having a 100% positive rating, hasn't returned my email. The auction has the paypal "protection" logo but I haven't pursued that yet. I'm pretty sure this mic should sound better. What are my options here? I've had pretty good luck with the few things I've bought on ebay so far and not have had to return anything. Thanks for whatever ideas you may have.

Ike

[bolo]

Howdy Ike. I'm not sure if this is one of the options you had in mind, and it certainly does not address being treated in a fair and reasonable fashion by the seller. But, FWIW, I copied this from another thread.

Originally Posted by larry

Check Shure's website - they have a flat-fee schedule to fix whatever is wrong with their mics.

[Jeremy Allen]

The few times I used a Beta 57 live, it was very trebly and, well, puny-sounding. This is in comparison to one of the Shure kick-drum mics, and to the Heil PR40. The sound guy loved it--said it had lots of articulation and definition--but I thought it sounded a lot like a bad pickup. (With my bass, fingers, mic placement, amp settings, and so forth.)

Many others here will disagree vehemently, so...

Does it sounds thin in comparison to the SM58's, or just in comparison to the Beta 57 reviews you've read here?

[Chris Fitzgerald]

The Beta 57 should sound thin next to a 58, because it doesn't have nearly as much proximity effect as a 58. Dunno why. I don't think the Beta 57 sounds all that great by itself, but on my bass (with my hands, my ears, m-m-m-my---sharona, etc. ) it has what the pickup lacks. The 58 would sound better all by itself, as would many mics. I like the beta 57 because it's hypercardiod and because it doesn't add tubby, rumbly bass to the signal.

Funny experience the other night - I was playing a trio concert at an arts center down in Madisonville, and the sound guy was checking out the H-clamp and asking had I tried other mics on the bass, etc. He asked it I'd tried a Sennheiser MD421, and I said, "no". He said, "would you like to", so I said sure, what the hell. We popped the mic on, and by itself it sounded great, nice and dark and full. Once the piano and drums kicked in, it kind of got lost, and the same soundguy said he had to keep bumping up the highs and mids on the direct out. Go figure...

[Ike Harris]

Originally Posted by Jeremy Allen

The few times I used a Beta 57 live, it was very trebly and, well, puny-sounding. This is in comparison to one of the Shure kick-drum mics, and to the Heil PR40. The sound guy loved it--said it had lots of articulation and definition--but I thought it sounded a lot like a bad pickup. (With my bass, fingers, mic placement, amp settings, and so forth.)

Many others here will disagree vehemently, so...

Does it sounds thin in comparison to the SM58's, or just in comparison to the Beta 57 reviews you've read here?

Both. I tried both w/bass and vocal check. From the glowing remarks I've read, you'd think it was answer to all prayers or something. I'll try it again later with different placement and see what happens. Different basses like different pickups and different mic placements too I guess. We'll look at it again tomorrow.

Ike

[fingers]

I've always had more success with kickdrum mics too. I used to use a Beta 52. Currently I am using the Audix D2 which is a tom mic. It is Hypercardiod and has a bit of a low-mid bump which I really like for bass. It is also light and small. The Beta 52 was too heavy for the H-Clamp. I try to only send a mic signal to the house (though I never argue with the soundman if he wants a signal off my amp too).

I picked up a Beta 57 (from Jeremy). I have noticed that it has a bit more of a detailed sound than the D2 but I have also noticed a pretty good proximity effect. I actually like the sound the best when the mic is touching the top. Same with the D2. I have a wind/pop cover so I don't mar the top. The bass response really seems to come out when the mic is SUPER close to the top. Looking at the Shure website the proximity effect kicks in when the mic is closer than 2".

I like the sound of the D2 when it is right under the end of the fingerboard. The Shure was cool (on basement tests) when it was closer to the bass bar and right below the bridge.

I have yet to try it in a live situation. We'll see.

[Bass Catcher]

I've recently added a Beta57 to my rig as well. I don't think it sounds that good on it's own - it sounds best when I mix it with my full circle. The way that my ears hear it, the pickup is the meat and potatoes and the mic is the icing on the cake. Even in low volume situations, I feel like playing with just the mic doesn't cut it. Then again, I just started using this set-up less than a week ago. Time will tell - I still need to play with it more.

Matt

[Chris Fitzgerald]

Originally Posted by Bass Catcher

I've recently added a Beta57 to my rig as well. I don't think it sounds that good on it's own - it sounds best when I mix it with my full circle. The way that my ears hear it, the pickup is the meat and potatoes and the mic is the icing on the cake. Even in low volume situations, I feel like playing with just the mic doesn't cut it.

Well put, better than I said it. I guess it all depends on what you're looking for out of the mic. When I find the magic mic to replace it, I'll have little trouble doing so. For now, though, I like it as an "icing" mike that serves its function even in stoopid loud situations.

[Ben Rolston]

How's your iced meat and potatoes cake?

[Jason Hollar]

Yeah -- I think Beta 57s work better with a louder source, like a snare drum or guitar amp, etc.

I wonder if the Beta 56 is would be a better option, since it's got that side-mic profile like the 52 and you could stick it close to the top.

You guys got me thinking about an H Clamp & an Audix D series now!

[Ike Harris]

OK, just had the little mic session with all the toys, including all mics on the Standard. Oddly enough, the most satisfactory result with all the above was using the Beta 57 on the carved Kolstein's g-side f hole up close using a stand. Very punchy and crisp, more like the true bass's sound. Had to monkey around with the Clarus' filters and such, but it works. Otherwise, with the Standard, nothing happened with the Beta, but worked ok with the Audix stuffed behind the tailpiece for a kind of boomy sound. So, I'm getting why the H clamp is needed for something like this. Will continue to experiment, but still interesting why the Beta's so much quieter, I guess it's to make the narrow pattern work. Needs some extra juice to make it happen but it seems to work.

Ike

[bolo]

Originally Posted by Bass Catcher

I've recently added a Beta57 to my rig as well. I don't think it sounds that good on it's own - it sounds best when I mix it with my full circle. The way that my ears hear it, the pickup is the meat and potatoes and the mic is the icing on the cake. Even in low volume situations, I feel like playing with just the mic doesn't cut it. Then again, I just started using this set-up less than a week ago. Time will tell - I still need to play with it more.

Funny. I read Chris's description and then Matt's. To me, I use the mic to mellow out and soften the pickup sound. Like Demerol ... it takes the edge off.

Different than what you guys outlined, at least thinking tone-wise. I think (?). Granted, volume-wise, in loud situations the pickup is providing the majority of the sound.

The Beyer I use most often has a whomping proximity effect. I angle the head so it is not pointing directly at the table, and this helps tame that effect. It sounds great by itself.

Different strokes.

[Ike Harris]

The seller got back to me the other day and is sending another 57 to check out, so not such a bad deal, it's looking like. Asked a Shure guy online about it after describing the problem, says it might be a counterfeit. Haven't heard that one before.

[bassphase]

Originally Posted by Chris Fitzgerald

The Beta 57 should sound thin next to a 58, because it doesn't have nearly as much proximity effect as a 58. Dunno why. I don't think the Beta 57 sounds all that great by itself, but on my bass (with my hands, my ears, m-m-m-my---sharona, etc. ) it has what the pickup lacks. The 58 would sound better all by itself, as would many mics. I like the beta 57 because it's hypercardiod and because it doesn't add tubby, rumbly bass to the signal.

Proximity effect is based on how close the source is to the mic diaphragm (and the type of polar pattern). You can get closer to a 57 than a 58 because the shape of the grill on the 58 prevents it (Same with the beta models). Thus there is potentially more proximity effect from a 57. Hyper cardioid just puts the nulls at 2 o'clock and 10 o'clock instead of 12 o'clock typical of a cardioid pattern. There's theoretically a bit less proximity with hyper cardioid which is probably what you're experiencing.


bob

[Chris Fitzgerald]

Originally Posted by bassphase

Proximity effect is based on how close the source is to the mic diaphragm (and the type of polar pattern). You can get closer to a 57 than a 58 because the shape of the grill on the 58 prevents it (Same with the beta models). Thus there is potentially more proximity effect from a 57. Hyper cardioid just puts the nulls at 2 o'clock and 10 o'clock instead of 12 o'clock typical of a cardioid pattern. There's theoretically a bit less proximity with hyper cardioid which is probably what you're experiencing.


bob

Wow, that's a mouthful! I'm not qualified to comment on the above except to say that whatever causes the lack of boominess when close to the bass, it's welcome for what I'm trying to do. I can even point the mic at the bass f-hole in some situations and still get a usable sound. With some of the other mics I've tried, the mud comes a lot quicker and thicker the closer you get to the top.

[drurb]

Originally Posted by Chris Fitzgerald

The Beta 57 ...doesn't have nearly as much proximity effect as a 58. Dunno why.

...because it's hypercardiod

You had the answer!
Edit-- Posted this before I saw bassphase's reply.

According to Shure, the 57 should result in an enhanced proximity effect in practice. Here's a nice, concise explanation of the proximity effect (the one on Wikipedia, IMO, leaves much to be desired).

[fingers]

Well I gave the Beta-57A a good test with gigs Thursday, Friday, and Saturday. All starkly different rooms. Used my AI Clarus and EA Wizzy 12 M-Line. All moderate volume jazz gigs. After some experimenting I liked the sound of it right on the e-side f hole (on the h-clamp) at about a 45 degree angle to the hole pretty much touching the top. The mic can deal with pretty high spls and the hemholz stuff was not pronounced like I have found with other mics. Also, because of the pattern I feel like I still got a good amount of air. The thing that I really liked though was a felt like I could really turn up without worrying about feedback. The sound I got was big and full but with some nice detail. I think it did lack a little bit of 'meat' so I blended in just enough pickup to make up for that. Not enough to really hear it but enough to 'complete' the sound. There was a little funky low-end boom but I was able to kill that with the HPF. I was very pleased with the result.

The only problem is there is more **** to carry and setup takes longer. Beauty knows no pain. We'll see how long it lasts.