qsc k10/dpa/headway

[jrlynch]

I've been wanting to experiment with this setup and finally had a chance last night. dpa 4099>headway pre>qsc k10. Set the k on a stand, so it was around ear level, bass facing in toward the band. It sounds stupid great. i had the planet wing plugged in, too, but never used any of the signal. Listened to the pickup alone through the rig after the gig. Sounded like plastic compared to the organic sound of the dpa. Zero eq except for the hpf kicked in on the headway (flat cartridge on the dpa, btw). This was not a full blown electric gig, but it was far louder then the typical jazz gig in a big way. Zero feedback.

Only downside is the weight of the k, which is all of 42 lbs or so. But then again there's a thousand watts in there.

Ain't technology great?

[bribass]

Originally Posted by jrlynch

I've been wanting to experiment with this setup and finally had a chance last night. dpa 4099>headway pre>qsc k10. Set the k on a stand, so it was around ear level, bass facing in toward the band. It sounds stupid great. i had the planet wing plugged in, too, but never used any of the signal. Listened to the pickup alone through the rig after the gig. Sounded like plastic compared to the organic sound of the dpa. Zero eq except for the hpf kicked in on the headway (flat cartridge on the dpa, btw). This was not a full blown electric gig, but it was far louder then the typical jazz gig in a big way. Zero feedback.

Only downside is the weight of the k, which is all of 42 lbs or so. But then again there's a thousand watts in there.

Ain't technology great?

That's really interesting. A keyboardist friend uses a K8, it's quite a bit smaller & lighter than the K10 and has the same 1000 watt amp! Sounds great w/ his Roland keyboard too. I once plugged into it w/ a LR Baggs Paracoustic DI and a Realist. Pretty darn good, but I'd bet it would kill w/ the DPA as well.

[Vic Koler]

Originally Posted by jrlynch

I've been wanting to experiment with this setup and finally had a chance last night. dpa 4099>headway pre>qsc k10. Set the k on a stand, so it was around ear level, bass facing in toward the band. It sounds stupid great. i had the planet wing plugged in, too, but never used any of the signal. Listened to the pickup alone through the rig after the gig. Sounded like plastic compared to the organic sound of the dpa. Zero eq except for the hpf kicked in on the headway (flat cartridge on the dpa, btw). This was not a full blown electric gig, but it was far louder then the typical jazz gig in a big way. Zero feedback.

Only downside is the weight of the k, which is all of 42 lbs or so. But then again there's a thousand watts in there.

Ain't technology great?

There's a lot to be said for integrated design. The K10 is a bi-amp system with the speakers matched to the amp's output. I'll bet this set-up kills!

[jrlynch]

Originally Posted by Vic Koler

There's a lot to be said for integrated design. The K10 is a bi-amp system with the speakers matched to the amp's output. I'll bet this set-up kills!

i think a big part of it is the very tight diffusion pattern of the k.

[Ric Vice]

Originally Posted by jrlynch

I've been wanting to experiment with this setup and finally had a chance last night. dpa 4099>headway pre>qsc k10. Set the k on a stand, so it was around ear level, bass facing in toward the band. It sounds stupid great. i had the planet wing plugged in, too, but never used any of the signal. Listened to the pickup alone through the rig after the gig. Sounded like plastic compared to the organic sound of the dpa. Zero eq except for the hpf kicked in on the headway (flat cartridge on the dpa, btw). This was not a full blown electric gig, but it was far louder then the typical jazz gig in a big way. Zero feedback.

Only downside is the weight of the k, which is all of 42 lbs or so. But then again there's a thousand watts in there.

Ain't technology great?

JR,
It sure is! I totally agree with you on the difference between the DPA 4099/Headway combination vs using a blended pickup (in my case a Realist) with the same setup, it just can't compare to the sound of that mic alone.

Ric

[youngheo]

isn't k10 only 32lb instead of 42lb?

[jrlynch]

you're right. i guess because it feels three times heavier than my genz shuttle

[Ric Vice]

Originally Posted by jrlynch

you're right. i guess because it feels three times heavier than my genz shuttle

At what 18 pounds for the Genz Benz, I would imagine that it did! That QSC K10 looks like a very good idea though, something like a mini Bergantino IP cabinet. I've looked high and low for a compact digital power amplifier and although there are a lot of different ones out there none of them are the size and weight of the Focus SA.

Ric

[Norre]

I received my Headway EDB-1 last week and was looking for a good active cab to use it with (had the IP112 in mind). The K12 seems really interesting. I was looking at the specs and it says:
Frequency Respons (-6 dB): 52Hz - 18 kHz.
Frequency Range (-10 dB): 48Hz - 20 kHz
If I'm not wrong I think the low E is about 40 Hz.
Does that mean the cab will not amplify the E very well?
Can someone try to explain it to me without getting too technical about it?
How would the K12 compare to the IP112?

Thanks,

KN

[geoffbassist]

I don't really understand why active monitors seem to work so well with a mic compared to a high end bass rig with the same size cab. Is it actually the amp part? Could we use our EA wizzy cabs with mini PA amp and get better results than a clarus when using a mic like the dpa4099?
Cheers Geoff

Originally Posted by Norre

I received my Headway EDB-1 last week and was looking for a good active cab to use it with (had the IP112 in mind). The K12 seems really interesting. I was looking at the specs and it says:
Frequency Respons (-6 dB): 52Hz - 18 kHz.
Frequency Range (-10 dB): 48Hz - 20 kHz
If I'm not wrong I think the low E is about 40 Hz.
Does that mean the cab will not amplify the E very well?
Can someone try to explain it to me without getting too technical about it?
How would the K12 compare to the IP112?

Thanks,

KN

[jrlynch]

One thing about the qsc: it is stone flat. Most bass amps, including my genz shuttle are pretty colored. Frankly, the planet wing plugged into the genz sounds way better than the same pickup plugged into the qsc, which is so neutral.

The thing about the qsc, particularly with an uncolored mic like the dpa, is that it's pretty much the holy grail of "sound of your bass, just louder", which leads to the question, is that what you want? In a live context i do think there is some benefit to having things voiced so you can simply hear what the hell you're playing.

but with this rig it's kinda like the dog catching the squirrel ... now what?

jeff.

Originally Posted by geoffbassist

I don't really understand why active monitors seem to work so well with a mic compared to a high end bass rig with the same size cab. Is it actually the amp part? Could we use our EA wizzy cabs with mini PA amp and get better results than a clarus when using a mic like the dpa4099?
Cheers Geoff

[youngheo]

ok, so i just order k10 to use with dpa and headway. Hope this is last amp i need.

will report back.. and with some soundclip.

[Ric Vice]

Originally Posted by youngheo

ok, so i just order k10 to use with dpa and headway. Hope this is last amp i need.

will report back.. and with some soundclip.

Young Hero,
I can tell you that the Headway/ DPA combo works really well and of all the blenders out there it's got all the features you need to use a mic with. JR' s the only person that has used the QSC with that mic and preamp, but I value his opinion. Let us know how it works for you.

Ric

[Roger Davis]

Any updates on the DPA/K10, guys? I'm really keen on this rig but would like a bit of reassurance before committing to the price and weight. Any opinions very much welcome. There is a very much cheaper Behringer powered speaker available but I guess you get what you pay for.

[Vunz]

Originally Posted by jrlynch

One thing about the qsc: it is stone flat. Most bass amps, including my genz shuttle are pretty colored. Frankly, the planet wing plugged into the genz sounds way better than the same pickup plugged into the qsc, which is so neutral.

The thing about the qsc, particularly with an uncolored mic like the dpa, is that it's pretty much the holy grail of "sound of your bass, just louder", which leads to the question, is that what you want? In a live context i do think there is some benefit to having things voiced so you can simply hear what the hell you're playing.

but with this rig it's kinda like the dog catching the squirrel ... now what?

jeff.

That is why I am using a Glockenklang Acoustic Art mk I cab with a Flying Mole power amp (and the DPA plus AER preamp). Studio monitor quality sound in a package that can withstand gigging abuse.

Cheers,
Vincent

[Chris Fitzgerald]

I'm also hoping to hear some followup on this rig. I'm very happy with the PJB combo with the full circle for regular gigs, and can always find a sound to make music with from there. However, the idea of a "Grenadier option" pole mounted speaker is something in the back of my mind whenever I think about ever using a mic onstage again. I did a review of the DPA, but couldn't get anything meaningful out of it through an amp that was worth the trouble of the setup hassle. My most successful blending moments were always using a speaker up high over the bass. Obviously, a powered speaker would be a great way to do that, no matter what the mic.

[Bass Catcher]

Yes, I'd like to hear how this rig is going too.

I think I'd like to take the plunge and use a rig similar to this. I currently mix my dpa 4099 & full circle through my clarus/EA Wizzy M-Line. On quieter gigs I can get away with just the dpa - which I love. On louder gigs, not so much. When I plug the dpa into the house PA it sounds so much better. So I'd like to replicate that on all my gigs.

Question - does a powered speaker like this provide phantom power to the dpa? Can I run my dpa into my Clarus and then into the speaker? Or would getting a preamp the Headway be a more suitable option?

Matt

[Contrabbasso]

I have been using the QSC k-10 powered loudspeaker with the DPA/UA/Rev.II/EDB-1 setup 1 to 2 times a week for the last 2 months in a Jazz Big-band ensemble. Also have tested and played this setup quite a bit in my workshop.

This is definitely the setup I needed.
It all started with the thought of using a microphone to capture a more natural sound from the Db.
On my bass I feel a pickup works as if I was "holding an ear against the wall in a house". I can hear other sounds I don't like or need to hear. The microphone picks up the sound wave not the contact vibrations. Don't get me wrong I still blend in a pickup for a more direct sound if needed.

To power the DPA 4099b microphone I use a Universal Audio 710 pre-Amp (48v phantom power).
I then "blend/mix/EQ" the DPA/UA-710 with a Rev.Solo II pickup using the Headway EDB-1 Pre-amp.

--2 Pre-amps may be redundant; however, balancing the Rev.soloII and DPA before the Headway seems to work best for me. The Headway's input gain knobs are now set equally (about 12-O'clock or so) and the EQ is flat and notch filter off to start with which is a good place to start when blending the mic and pickup. The Headway Preamp is used as a mixer/EQ/DI in a small box. It work's good for now.
My Db is not the loudest but it's not weak or dead. For a hybrid 5-string Hi-C I would say it's volume is average, tone is deep dark on the low-E, somewhat brite on the high-C yet I feel is fairly even if that makes sense.

Anyway, I can use the Headway to phantom-power the DPA mic; however, the Headway EDB-1's 18v phantom power limit requires it's gains to be turned up for the mic which adds some audio hiss and makes it hard to EQ both mic/pickup. That also seems to reduce headroom/punch. Using the UA-710 pre-amp to power up the DPA 4099b produces a beautifully warm sound with a very low noise level of harshness and hiss which allows the Headway to work in it's best range.

Ok as for the k-10.
After reading "Jrlynch's" post in regard to the QSC-k10 powered loudspeaker I thankfully felt it a very good solution for me.
Thank's JR! I trusted your opinion.
As you said in an earlier post. "Seems like the dog caught the squirrel. Now what?"
You are absolutely right on. That is really a good analogy IMO.

The 90deg. sound pattern of the QSC K-10 with the tone and volume that the DPA/REV.II/Headway blend produces is a sound I am more than satisfied with.
No searching or hunting for the right balance of volume or tone. It's just much more CLEAR and AUTHENTIC to me as I play.
The K-10's freq range goes down to 56hz and the Db's low-E is about 42hz yet I really don't think a QSC-sub woofer is needed. If I Eq off just a little-little of the lowest-lows it's not boomy, muddy or distorted with the speaker turned up to 0db of gain. It's sweet sounding. It really does seem to be "the little speaker that could". As a bonus it even has it's own separate 2ch. with separate filter switches and RCA inputs and separate line outputs. The Ch.2 portion has a remote gain feature that may also be quite useful.

In the Big-band practice room (w/19-25 pieces) there isn't a PA system nor do they need one yet they still want "More Bass!"

As a joke I try to remind them that an orchestra playing "The Right of Spring" or the "Planets" calls for 8-10 or more basses. LOL.

Yes, I can push the speaker system to feedback or the bass & strings themselves to over-resonate if I'm too close to the speaker at high volume levels; however, now I think (2)two K-10's speakers spaced 3-10 Ft. apart will end the request for "More Bass" and will reduce feedback/resonance problems drastically if not totally.
IMHO a 2 speaker array will create a really BIG! sound in a BIG room -60'x60' without pushing the speaker & Db/strings as much. I think it would even fill a bigger room maybe 120'x120'.
A much wider field of sound that is balanced to the room (sound pressure and tone) sounding like the real instrument yet easy to manage. Whoa!

I am definitely going to consider a second K-10. For now I've been using an SWR-15 as reinforcement but it's not working for me. Too much work trying to balance the K-10 and the SWR-15. I've tried a few different Amp/Cab variations but I am sold on the K-10's and the DPA/UA/HEADWAY setup. Cost some money, but I think I have the tools to get the job done. Over and out!

Well, one more thing though. After the last Big-band gig I think using only DI to FOH system and stage monitors (no bass amp which may cause delay,echo,feedback_whatever) will work best but If i need to hear myself more I'll walk out to my car and pull out the 32lb. QSC K-10.

What a difference these devices have made for me. As you can tell I'm excited about this setup.
I can hear and feel the natural bass sound with a "loudspeaker" on a stand in the mix much better and I can now focus of the charts rather then the speaker system. I don't think it could be much better IMO. It works very good for me.

Thanks "jrlynch" and all TBer's for all you do and say,
Contrabbasso

[Roger Davis]

Some good stuff there, Contrabasso. I'm going to try out with a DPA/Headway/K10 to get the upper/middle range nuances. Then I'll also rig an Underwood/Clarus/12" or 10" Wizzy to get monitoring/bass on stage. Should do it. On a gig yesterday we were discussing what we'll do when we win the Lottery. For me it'll be a Mercedes Sprinter and a roadie.

[Bass Catcher]

Hey Contrabbasso -

Looks like we're in the same city! I haven't found many twin cities bassists who frequent here. Did you purchase your headway and qsc here in the cities? It would be nice to try that combo out before I buy it. If you didn't get it here, I'd be really interested in checking out your headway/qsc combo if you'd have me over. I could bring over my AI Clarus and my Wizzy 10 & 12 M-Line if you've ever been interested in trying those. If you'd rather not, no worries. Send me a message if you get a chance. Thanks!

Matt Peterson