Question for Bob Golihur (or anyone else)about bass-max

lucas vigor · #1 10-12-2005, 03:09 PM

I just ordered the bass max. I have one already installed in my KING doublebass--(actually, it is the rockabilly system so it's a bass max plus fingerboard piezo.) I have not gotten the new bass max yet, but will be installing it on my strunal steel-string as soon as it arrives. My question is this: Would it be better to go straight to sansamp or to line 6 bass pod before amp? I will be using one or the other as my pre-amp.

bolo · #2 10-12-2005, 03:18 PM

lucas, this has nothing to do with the Bass Max pickup itself per se, but I think the owner's manual for the SansAmp recommends putting it right after the bass (electric or upright I guess) in your signal chain, as opposed to using the SansAmp in the effects loop.

I guess if you have a K&K preamp too, you would put the SansAmp after the K&K preamp, but before your main amp.

Don't know if that (partially) answers your question or not.

lucas vigor · #3 10-12-2005, 05:01 PM

Thanks bolo..I guess what I was saying was that I don't have a regular pre-amp, but will be trying to use either my sansamp or my line 6 pod as the pre-amp, to get the signal buffer, and I am wondering which is better as far as impedence and tone.

bolo · #4 10-12-2005, 05:30 PM

Okay lucas, I'm sorry I didn't read your original post carefully enough. Thanks - I understand a little better now.

I just checked my owner's manual for my SansAmp Bass Driver DI, and apparently it does not list the input impedance value. Neither does their web site that I could see.

I can recall reading posts here on TB where some cats liked using the SansAmp BDDI w/ their upright ('mchildree' was one user, maybe ... Hello Mike?).

And I can also recall other fairly recent posts that stated the opposite (yup ... found one example ... scroll to the bottom of What Direct Boxes are You Folks Using, or send a PM to 'junglebike')

Hopefully some of those folks and others will chime in here.

CamMcIntyre · #5 10-12-2005, 10:04 PM

Hey man, i've done something similar. I've got the Bass Master Pro package-the double big twin plus bass max and a pre. I haven't been using my pre much so i believe i'm just getting the bass max signal. It sounds good-i've put it through a sansamp RBI,RPM, and a Bass POD Pro-i need to tweak the POD Pro to sound good.

bolo · #6 10-12-2005, 10:47 PM

With the SansAmp, I would think you might want to start off with the Blend knob all the way counterclockwise, to not engage the tube emulation.

But then again, adding the "fake tubes" just might sound good in certain situations ... I would imagine it would sound quite gooey and thick probably, but who knows, maybe that would work for you.

I really, really dig what the SansAmp does for my Lakland, but actually I have never tried it with my upright.

lucas vigor · #7 10-24-2005, 03:06 PM

Hi guys, thanks for the info. I may very well have to get the KK preamp anyway. The SANSAMP works, but it has the same effect as it would on my electric..cuts the mids completley! Great if I want to sound like Fieldy (Which I don't) but not so good if I want any kind of body...it's all bass and high click with the SANSAMP. However, I saw an upright player at Disneyland with more or less that set-up...a Kay, with a SANSAMP velcroed down near the end-pin.

The funny thing is that my upright (Both of my uprights) have bassmax PUPS now....and both seem to work fine going direct to my amps (On SWR super redhead, and one Carvin of the same style...two 10's and a horn)

So why do I really need a preamp? Everyone I have talked to says I definetly need a preamp, to get the impedance to match. So what gives? Both these amps are combo amps that have pre-amps (with one tube) and then a poweramp (solid state) in the same head. Isn't that already a pre-amp then?

SteveC · #8 10-24-2005, 03:13 PM

I use the Fishman Platinum Pro Bass DI/Preamp for my Bass Max. I run that in the effects loop of my Eden 550 head.

I tried going righ to the Eden but it didn't sound good. It sounds much better with the Fishman. $170 from Bob G.

bolo · #9 10-24-2005, 07:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lucas vigor

The funny thing is that my upright (Both of my uprights) have bassmax PUPS now....and both seem to work fine going direct to my amps (On SWR super redhead, and one Carvin of the same style...two 10's and a horn)

So why do I really need a preamp? Everyone I have talked to says I definetly need a preamp, to get the impedance to match. So what gives? Both these amps are combo amps that have pre-amps (with one tube) and then a poweramp (solid state) in the same head. Isn't that already a pre-amp then?

lucas, I think you're right - Both the amps you mentioned have separate preamp and power amp sections I believe.

It is true that some people prefer the sound they get from the K&K p/u with an additional external preamp, but I don't think everybody necessarily has the same experience. In fact, for the Bass Max in particular, if I'm not mistaken I believe I've read quite a few posts where folks use it without a preamp, and are quite happy with the results.

I think if you felt like you were getting a honking, nasal, brittle sound, without a lot of bottom end, then it might mean the impedance level of the inputs of those combo amps was too low for the K&K. And a preamp would address that.

But hey, bottom line, if it sounds good to you as is, there's nothing wrong with that at all! Like I said, I think the Bass Max works fine without a preamp for lots of folks.

Bob Rogers · #10 10-25-2005, 05:24 AM

So Lucas, Have you tried the Bass POD yet? When I got my Bass Max I tried my Baggs ParaAcoutstic first with pretty good results, so I stuck to it. But a guitarist came over and wanted to use the Baggs, so I tried my Bass POD. Used the "Tube Preamp" setting and tweaked it around a bit and came up with a better sound than the Baggs. (I did find that with either preamp I had to tame the string click.) I'm new at this, and it is clearly something I'm going to be experimenting with forever. But the Bass Max and the Bass POD seems like a pretty good start.

lucas vigor · #11 10-25-2005, 10:43 AM

Thanks again.

Bolo, the sound I get going straight to my SWR rehead without an additional outboard preamp is thick and beefy, with plenty of volume. That's why I don't understand why most people I have talked to have mentioned line impedence. I have noticed that most acoustic guitars with Piezo's have an onboard preamp with battery, but the sound I am getting is just fine...I just kind of wondered if there was a major difference in tone or not if I used something before the combo amp.

As far as the line 6, Bob...it does sound great and is basically what I have been using. Unfortunately though, our band plays routinely in small, dark places...(out of sight and out of mind I guess!) so keeping my gear to a minimum is crucial. Dangling cords are not good for my application. For most gigs, I have been doing this: King Doublebass (all guts)with Rockabilly Pups into K and K preamp straight to the amp, or straight to the line 6 (after the preamp) or Steel strung upright with Bass max direct to line 6, or just straight to the amp.

For some reason, I am getting a great tone no matter how I arrange it. Whether I use the preamp, the line 6 or just go straight, the only difference seems to be with volume, but it is not drastic. In any combination, I get no line hum. I do get feedback only if I actually turn the front directly to the amp when cranked. Other then that, no feedback.

I don't undertstand fully why I am getting so few variations in sound/tone no matter what the setup, other then perhaps the bassmax just is a great pup?

bolo · #12 10-27-2005, 05:47 AM

lucas, that is interesting. Maybe the Line 6 is passing through a very clean signal the way you have it set with your second bass.

For example, if the Bass Max into the SWR sounds pretty much the same with or without the Line 6 like you described, it might just mean the Line 6 isn't coloring the tone, and all it's doing is boosting the gain for you.

**Bob Gollihur** · #13 10-27-2005, 09:57 AM

Quote:

I just checked my owner's manual for my SansAmp Bass Driver DI, and apparently it does not list the input impedance value. Neither does their web site that I could see.

FYI, the input impedance of the SansAmp is 940K, close enough to 1megohm for jazz.

As noted, some devices do have the appropriate impedance but may color the sound that may or may not make your ears smile.

Sorry for the late arrival in this thread, our new building is almost complete and it's been soaking up a good bit of my online time.

lucas vigor · #14 10-27-2005, 03:34 PM

All hail Bob!!

**Chef** · #15 10-31-2005, 11:55 AM

Preamps are generally used for two reasons:
impedance matching-some amps will not like your pickup

e/q ability...to provide/remove some color you like/dislike, or in the case of something like the fishman with a broader range of eq, to help with feedback frequencies.

lucas vigor · #16 11-02-2005, 05:25 PM

It is entirely possible, though, that you may not need one if using the bassmax PUP straight to the preamp that is built into an SWR super redhead? My SWR has two inputs, active and Passive/active..which should I be using if I don't have a separate off-board preamp?

**Bob Gollihur** · #17 11-02-2005, 08:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lucas vigor

It is entirely possible, though, that you may not need one if using the bassmax PUP straight to the preamp that is built into an SWR super redhead? My SWR has two inputs, active and Passive/active..which should I be using if I don't have a separate off-board preamp?

Usually the passive, especially since the active may have a lower input impedance. The Bass Max is a very hot pickup, and depending on the instrument and installation that initial hit of a pizzicato note could overwhelm some passive inputs, so if there is any hint of distortion try the active, or adjust the amp controls if any are available to attenuate the input stage.

**Chef** · #18 11-03-2005, 05:15 AM

Just for science, I tried mine into my super redhead last night both with the k&k pre, and without, into the passive input. With the k&k pre volume at 50%, there was no discernable diff with or without...