Realist + Radial Tonebone

[dodgy_ian]

I've been reading a lot about using a decent preamp with pickups. Something I've never really considered before. Does anyone know if the Radial Tonebone would function as a preamp well with the Realist?

If not does anyone have any other preamp suggestions for the Realist?

[WJGreer]

Originally Posted by dodgy_ian

I've been reading a lot about using a decent preamp with pickups. Something I've never really considered before. Does anyone know if the Radial Tonebone would function as a preamp well with the Realist?

If not does anyone have any other preamp suggestions for the Realist?

I can't help with the Realist end of your question, but I do use a Tonebone with my Ergo EUB. I run it through the second channel, with the EQ, and find it to very effectively offset the midrange and very high end humps that the Ergo's piezo creates. Without the Tonebone, the Ergo sounds very anemic; with it, substantially warmer, larger, and more acoustic.

And, since I do occasionally double, the volume leveling that the Tonebone provides across the two inputs is great. The Ergo's pickup is substantially hotter than any of my electric basses.

[presforlife]

I have been using The Realist with a Baggs Para DI for nine years or so.The bags is the most musical sounding pre. to my ears of any affordable pre/DI out there.Not as many tricks as others but it is a sweet soundig unit.Have probably played a thousand or so gigs with it in loud and quiet settings and have no sonic complaints.Hope this helps you.

Bill

[Jaromir]

According to my experience, The Realist sounds the best without any preamp, especially without those of high impedance input. I would only appreciate the phase switch ocassionally...

[Ric Vice]

Originally Posted by Jaromir

According to my experience, The Realist sounds the best without any preamp, especially without those of high impedance input. I would only appreciate the phase switch ocassionally...

Jaromir
I do like using the HPF Buffer Pre Amp for the phase switch and the low frequency roll of control. As far as the 10 vs. 1 meghom controversy I can't hear that much difference between the two, and I've A/B the Realist both ways. It does change the sound a little, but that minimal difference in tone quality is probably lost by the time the sound gets past the stage and moves out into the audience. There is also a difference between 500 k ohm and 1 meg ohm that's more pronounced however. There is just something missing when you plug directly to one of those amps set at 500 k. Fortunately, for me, most of the amps I've owned (GK 200 MB's and Walter Woods) were set at 1 meg ohm. That's why I never used the amps they provide for festivals.




Ric

[Jaromir]

Ric,
yes, I agree that the difference in tone quality between the 1Mohm and 10Mohm inputs is little. However, recently I played through the Radial PZ Pre, which is a great preamp, but I would't recommend it for the Realist. I think the 10Mohm input was the reason I had to fight with feeding open E string, even when I employed the low cut set at 80Hz. This never happenned to me without a preamp.
With the Fdeck HPF I would probably have better luck, as I could set the low cut even higher. The reason I was using the preamp was that I needed to go pretty loud and I wanted to have the phase reverse switch...
Regarding the 500Kohm input - I have similar experience with those amps with the exception of Markbass amps. They are all set at 500Kohms but somehow they sound deep and warm, which is something you wouldn't expect from 500Kohm input. I'm using my Mini CMD 121P without any preamp with good success. Now I'm going to try the new acoustic combo (also 500Kohm), which has the phase reverse feature.

[shwashwa]

Originally Posted by Jaromir

Ric,
yes, I agree that the difference in tone quality between the 1Mohm and 10Mohm inputs is little. However, recently I played through the Radial PZ Pre, which is a great preamp, but I would't recommend it for the Realist. I think the 10Mohm input was the reason I had to fight with feeding open E string, even when I employed the low cut set at 80Hz. This never happenned to me without a preamp.
With the Fdeck HPF I would probably have better luck, as I could set the low cut even higher. The reason I was using the preamp was that I needed to go pretty loud and I wanted to have the phase reverse switch...
Regarding the 500Kohm input - I have similar experience with those amps with the exception of Markbass amps. They are all set at 500Kohms but somehow they sound deep and warm, which is something you wouldn't expect from 500Kohm input. I'm using my Mini CMD 121P without any preamp with good success. Now I'm going to try the new acoustic combo (also 500Kohm), which has the phase reverse feature.

there is another setting for the hpf on the pz pre. you can do a cut at 120, which is not unreasonable if you're having low end problems.

[Dbassmon]

There is an issue with plugging a realist or any piezo based transducer in most "bass" amplifiers which is "impedance mismatching". The Bass Bone, walter woods amps, fishman pre's and host of other devices will correct the impedance mismatch issues for inputs with <10Mohms,and can only help your sound. Tone Bass Bone looks to be a quality device also check out Radial Tonebone PZ-Pre.

If are interested, here is Steve Rodby (of Pat Metheny Group) speaking in depth about getting a great sound and specifically, the effects of bad impedance matching between peizos and amp inputs. Very interesting and helpful.
http://contrabassconversations.com/g...s/steve-rodby/

[dodgy_ian]

Which one of the three is it? Just briefly looked at the page, not had chance to browse thru it.

[Bob Gollihur]

Originally Posted by dodgy_ian

I've been reading a lot about using a decent preamp with pickups. Something I've never really considered before. Does anyone know if the Radial Tonebone would function as a preamp well with the Realist?

If not does anyone have any other preamp suggestions for the Realist?

It depends...

The Tonebone Bassbone is not a preamp (it's a unity gain device, meaning it doesn't really preamplify the signal to any extent) and does not have the usually desirable ultrahigh input impedance, either.

However, as mentioned the ToneBone PZ Pre is a preamp with the appropriate input impedance.

There is a long list of preamps that will provide the proper match to the Realist, assuming you even need one. See my FAQ on the subject at http://www.gollihurmusic.com/faq/11-...RB_PICKUP.html

[Jim Carr]

I have found that the Tech21 ParaDI, which IIRC is 1Mohm, works well both as a preamp with semi-parametric EQ and as a DI for my Realist equipped double bass.

[Jaromir]

There is a huge difference between the Realist and "old" piezo pickups such as Fishman BP-100, Underwood etc... in their need of high impedance input.
For the most part, the Realist is fine with anything from 500Kohm (Markbass amps) to 1Mohm (GK, WW, AI). No need for the 10Mohm input, actually it can cause an issue coming from the overpronounced bass frequencies.

[FMartin]

Originally Posted by Bob Gollihur

However, as mentioned the ToneBone PZ Pre is a preamp with the appropriate input impedance.

Bob, would the PZ be of any good use with an AMT S25B?

[Bob Gollihur]

All you'd need would be an adapter/transformer, XLR to 1/4" that converts low to high impedance. They are common, even available at Radio Shack.

[William Hoffman]

i use a Realist and i bought a Radial Tonebone from Bob Gollihur earlier this year, and i like the Tonebone for what it is.

it is not a preamp. it provides unity gain as Bob has stated. it is a great tool for getting a boost and a separate EQ for soloing, but if you need a preamp you would need to get that additionally.

[FMartin]

Originally Posted by Bob Gollihur

All you'd need would be an adapter/transformer, XLR to 1/4" that converts low to high impedance. They are common, even available at Radio Shack.

Tried that. I got an Audio-technica cable (CP8305) that does that. Still doesn't work with my Eden head.

[Bob Gollihur]

Originally Posted by FMartin

Tried that. I got an Audio-technica cable (CP8305) that does that. Still doesn't work with my Eden head.

As long as you have a fresh battery in the interface box there is no reason in the world that the AMT S25B wouldn't work with any garden variety amp or box with a high impedance 1/4" input.

[FMartin]

Well, I guess then there's something broken. The amp works fine, so it must be either the cable, the microphone or the AMT preamp.

[Bob Gollihur]

Originally Posted by FMartin

Well, I guess then there's something broken. The amp works fine, so it must be either the cable, the microphone or the AMT preamp.

If I were there I'd test each piece in the chain (including cables) separately. I'd plug the AMT box's XLR output into a PA board or something with a low impedance XLR input; then plug a low impedance mic into the adapter and then into your amp.

[FMartin]

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