Realist transducer: sudden loss of most output

[Bob DUCharme]

When I set up my bass to play with friends last night, I could hardly hear anything coming out of my SWR Workingman's 12 amp with the volume knobs at their usual settings (5 and 5). With my upright with the Realist transducer I've had for about two years, cranking both volume knobs to 10 had my volume about 2/3 of the way to where I wanted it.

After trying different cords and plugging someone's keyboard into the amp, it looks like a problem with the Realist. I haven't changed anything recently. I played the gig normally, with some hum from the cranked amp and tired fingers from hitting the strings harder, and the volume I got was consistent, with no cutting in or out like you'd get with a flaky cord.

Has anyone heard of a Realist having a big drop in output? If it was dirty or something, I'd expect more uneven volume at some point; it was completely fine the last time I played it through the amp about three weeks ago and last night was a big surprise. Any suggestions?

thanks,

Bob

[Ric Vice]

Originally Posted by Bob DUCharme

When I set up my bass to play with friends last night, I could hardly hear anything coming out of my SWR Workingman's 12 amp with the volume knobs at their usual settings (5 and 5). With my upright with the Realist transducer I've had for about two years, cranking both volume knobs to 10 had my volume about 2/3 of the way to where I wanted it.

Bob,
Three summers ago I was having the same problem. I started a thread on the issue that had a lot of responses. Although, it varies from bass to bass their were several players, myself included, that had the same problem you are having.

Originally Posted by Bob DUCharme

After trying different cords and plugging someone's keyboard into the amp, it looks like a problem with the Realist. I haven't changed anything recently. I played the gig normally, with some hum from the cranked amp and tired fingers from hitting the strings harder, and the volume I got was consistent, with no cutting in or out like you'd get with a flaky cord.

A really nice tech from David Gage came on to the thread and said that they knew this problem could occur, especially with a bass that has a certain bridge angle. So in effect the Realist, in many cases will only last around you four years. When this happens you get a distinct drop in volume.

Originally Posted by Bob DUCharme

Has anyone heard of a Realist having a big drop in output? If it was dirty or something, I'd expect more uneven volume at some point; it was completely fine the last time I played it through the amp about three weeks ago and last night was a big surprise. Any suggestions?

As far as I know there is nothing that you can do to "fix it". It only has a limited warranty of 1 year now. I love the Realist, it's the best pickup with a bow under $500.00, so I have replaced mine about every 4 years.



thanks,

Bob[/quote]

[seamonkey]

I'm feeling that under the bridge is not a good place for a crystal.

[Bob DUCharme]

>A really nice tech from David Gage came on to the thread and said that they knew this
>problem could occur, especially with a bass that has a certain bridge angle. So in effect
>the Realist, in many cases will only last around you four years. When this happens you get
>a distinct drop in volume.

The Life Span of A Realist is a thread that starts of fwith Ric discussing a similar issue, but I didn't see a discussion of the angle of the bridge or someone clearly identifiable as a David Gage tech. I also found the receipt for mine, and it's 3 and a half years old.

I think I'm going to look into the other pickups mentioned in the thread.

thanks to all,

Bob

[balazs.horvath]

My Realist is 2 years old and it has definitely less input than earlier. I might change it to another to avoid a sudden death...

[Ric Vice]

Originally Posted by Bob DUCharme

The Life Span of A Realist is a thread that starts of with Ric discussing a similar issue, but I didn't see a discussion of the angle of the bridge or someone clearly identifiable as a David Gage tech. I also found the receipt for mine, and it's 3 and a half years old.

I think I'm going to look into the other pickups mentioned in the thread.

thanks to all,

Bob

Bob, Thanks for finding the thread!
Buried some where in the second page Sam Findaly posted the following. "An answer from David Gage String Instruments"

Originally Posted by Sam Findlay

"It has been a long time since I’ve searched the buzz on TalkBass, so please excuse our delay in responding to your questions."

Originally Posted by Sam Findlay

"First, we’d like to make clear that the vast majority of our clientele DO NOT experience a drop-off in sound or response from The Realist."

Originally Posted by Sam Findlay

"That being said, we do recognize that The Realist, after 5 or so years, will start to degrade gradually. As some of you have said, the pressure applied by the bridge feet is substantial and over time, it can take its toll on piezo ceramic elements. We have also decided, however, that the realistic sound the pick-up produces is a result of the unique combination of piezo size, quality, and the specific stimulation the element is afforded because of its placement under the bridge foot. –For us (and most of our customers, it seems,) the sound The Realist has become famous for is more important than durability beyond 5 years."

Originally Posted by Sam Findlay

"Why does it drop-off or degrade? Most of the evidence we’ve gathered is simple and empirical. It seems that certain bridges wear the element more intensely than others. We suspect that taller bridges, bridges that press with greater force against the top, wear the elements at a greater rate. Beyond that, we are not sure what the exact cause of the increased wear is, so we asked a couple of experts."

Originally Posted by Sam Findlay

"Rich Brooks, a piezo engineer at the American Piezo Coorporation, says, “there is a logarithmic deterioration or amelioration of a piezo’s properties over time.” Mr. Brooks says that there are many different reasons for this. He says, “[Deterioration] will be mitigated by the effects of temperature, other materials and mechanical interface.” He agreed with what we had hypothesized and didn’t see any way of avoiding the drop-off without substantially changing the element, an action that would alter the output and clearly diminish the true value of the pick-up."

Originally Posted by Sam Findlay

"As soon as we have more information, I’ll post our findings on this" site.

Originally Posted by Sam Findlay

"If any of you have any additional questions, please feel free to call or email me directly."

Originally Posted by Sam Findlay

"All the best",

Originally Posted by Sam Findlay

Sam Finlay
David Gage String Instrument Repair, Inc.
instruments@davidgage.com

[Paul New]

I`m on my third Realist, and obviously feel that the sound of the pickup is worth some compromise. There`s a Solo stuck in my bridge, just in case.

[Bob Branstetter]

On the other hand, I have one Realist that is over 10 years old and and has been used more or less continuously from the time I bought it on three different basses. I have another Realist that is well over 5 years and also still going strong.

[joel kelsey]

My realist lasted about 4 years. It sounded realy good until one day it started sounding like my bass was under water. I have since replaced it with a full circle.

[Ric Vice]

Originally Posted by Bob Branstetter

On the other hand, I have one Realist that is over 10 years old and and has been used more or less continuously from the time I bought it on three different basses. I have another Realist that is well over 5 years and also still going strong.

Bob,
This is when I just have to scratch my head and wonder? You are one of many bass players that have said the same thing. There just doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason why Realists degrade quickly on some basses and last forever on others. One thing is for certain though, they are only warranted for 1 year now. I don't know if that was a change in the original warranty or not. All I do now is that when I bought a new one as a backup the little instruction sheet states that it's only covered for one year.

Ric

[Bob Branstetter]

Originally Posted by Ric Vice

Bob,
This is when I just have to scratch my head and wonder? You are one of many bass players that have said the same thing. There just doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason why Realists degrade quickly on some basses and last forever on others. One thing is for certain though, they are only warranted for 1 year now. I don't know if that was a change in the original warranty or not. All I do now is that when I bought a new one as a backup the little instruction sheet states that it's only covered for one year.

Ric

Ric,
I suspect that the problem may have something to do with the change that was made in the piezo elements in later years to eliminate the little depressions in the top table under the feet that were made by the original thicker piezo element. Both of Realists that I mentioned have the old style thick piezo elements.

Another possibility that has been discussed in other threads on the Realist is that even a slight change in the angle of the bridge would a result in a smaller footprint and more pressure on part of the pickup. That may have nothing to do with it, but I have to admit that I'm anal about keeping the bridges straight on my basses.

[Ric Vice]

Originally Posted by Bob Branstetter

Ric,
I suspect that the problem may have something to do with the change that was made in the piezo elements in later years to eliminate the little depressions in the top table under the feet that were made by the original thicker piezo element. Both of Realists that I mentioned have the old style thick piezo elements.

Bob.
Thanks for reminding me of this. My first Realist went out after about four and a half years. Pretty good actually. I replaced it with a second one that's still on my instrument, going on 3+ years. Both of those elements were the older ones like you have. What I recall is after they switched the connecting jack from the older smooth barrel design the 1 year warranty appeared. Is that what you remember? I just installed one of the newer ones on my backup bass. So it hasn't been on that long.

Originally Posted by Bob Branstetter

Another possibility that has been discussed in other threads on the Realist is that even a slight change in the angle of the bridge would a result in a smaller footprint and more pressure on part of the pickup. That may have nothing to do with it, but I have to admit that I'm anal about keeping the bridges straight on my basses.

+1 on the bridge angle mantainence. My old friend Jerry Cherry taught me that trick and I'm fussy about that as well. So the good news may be that people just need to check the bridge angle more frequently. I'd love to use a Full Circle but the Realist sounds better when you use a bow.IMHO

Ric