Recommendation for clip-on mic

**Adrian Cho** · #1 07-06-2006, 11:36 AM

Hi all

I have not been around here a lot lately although I am very much still playing. If you're interested in jazz repertory, check out the Impressions in Jazz Orchestra with me sometimes playing bass and sometimes conducting. When I'm conducting, Chris Breitner (jar240 around here) plays bass (and does a great job). We recently played a great show last Friday for which I hope to soon post video clips.

Anyway, I'm looking again at mics. I of course sold my AMT and I have tried a stand-mounted Audix D4 on a few occasions. I'm wondering what's interesting right now in low-cost but reasonable performance (sound and minimal bleed) clip-on mics. I want something to mix with the Vektor (whereas before I used the AMT exclusively). I know about but don't want to try the Golden Trinity. I was thinking about an AMT Pro35x or whatever the right designation is. I want something with a really clean setup (minimal wires and crap on the bass). Preferably something I can clip to the tailpiece with a gooseneck and that I can use with the Focus 2. Something I can find at a reasonable price on eBay would be good. Because I get tonnes of bass from the Vektor, more clarity in the high end and "air" is really what I'm trying to get from a mic so the low-end response is not super important.

Thanks

Adrian

Uncletoad · #2 07-06-2006, 01:17 PM

Some interesting work being done in this thread.

Mic/Full Circle comparisons for live sound

Essentially Chris Pitzdurrl has been experimenting with a Sure Beta 57, and I've been experimenting with a Sennheiser 609. Both getting results like what you are looking at. The MD88 Beyer was also discussed but it is more expensive.

I'm still hunting down a 409 and a 906 for comparison and most likely will end up with one of those but I'm liking my current results with the 609. It's around $100 as is the Beta 57 Chris likes.

Read that thread and see what you think.

D McCartney · #3 07-06-2006, 08:49 PM

Here are two that look interesting, but I know nothing about them, just what it says on the web pages.

http://www.sdsystems.com/frame.html?...rl=/mic100.htm

http://www.dpamicrophones.com/page.php?PID=104

Uncletoad · #4 07-06-2006, 11:24 PM

SD is like $500 and the DPA is $1500.

Not really "low cost" options. There are a few TB's that like the DPA. Anyone tried the SD stuff?

D McCartney · #5 07-07-2006, 06:48 AM

http://www.soundpure.com/showProduct.do?id=452
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/MHS6001/

Well then has anyone used this one? isn't the AMT more than 500?

Ric Vice · #6 07-07-2006, 08:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uncletoad

Some interesting work being done in this thread.

Mic/Full Circle comparisons for live sound

Essentially Chris Pitzdurrl has been experimenting with a Sure Beta 57, and I've been experimenting with a Sennheiser 609. Both getting results like what you are looking at. The MD88 Beyer was also discussed but it is more expensive.

Uncle Toad,
Do you think that a 604 would work. Since I have one of those
Pecanic Tailpieces. The SweetWater site says its "similar to a 57". What do you think.

Ric

Uncletoad · #7 07-07-2006, 08:57 AM

I had a few minutes with a 604 the other day. I didn't like it much, it's nowhere near as good as the Beta 57 or the 609. Sort of hollow sounding with a weird thunk on the attack. YMMV of course. Could be just my bass.

How does the Pecanic TP affect what you are trying to do with a mic?

Ric Vice · #8 07-07-2006, 09:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uncletoad

I had a few minutes with a 604 the other day. I didn't like it much, it's nowhere near as good as the Beta 57 or the 609. Sort of hollow sounding with a weird thunk on the attack. YMMV of course. Could be just my bass.

How does the Pecanic TP affect what you are trying to do with a mic?

Well,
At least in theroy, the Pecanic compensated tailpiece increases the after length incrementaly, with a scoop between the strings. The Estring has a whole lot more length before it hits the tailpiece. That's supposed to (if I remember this right) improve the bass response on the lower strings and to my ears it does just that, at least on my bass. If you put a mic in there, it's my assumption that it would dampen what the tailpiece is doing. See picture below.

Uncletoad · #9 07-07-2006, 09:59 AM

Makes sense. Pretty lumber.

So you wanna be the guy that drops the dough and reviews the SD thing?

I saw on their site they've got a fingerboard mount that's pretty cool looking.

Or you could buy Chris's or my AMT

.

Ric Vice · #10 07-07-2006, 10:32 AM

Hmm,
Well, I like the way the SD looks, but once agian it has to dampen the bridge with that clamp, and that's one of the reasons I got rid of the olde Fishman BP-100. I'll check with them and see just how that mount works. I have this aversion to attaching things to bridges. Course, I've always had adjusters, and a Realist so I don't know what those do either. No matter what you do, you have to put something in the way of the "acoustical transmission path" to pick up the instrument. I'd just like to keep the invasive devices to a minimum. It's always a trade off.
Since Chris has had problems with the cables on his AMT not being very bullet proof and both you two have both preetty much "blown the lid "off the myth of the really expensive condenser being a whole lot better than the old reliable 57's and Sennheizers, I think I'll keep tuned to this channel and do a little more research. Thank's for the offer.
I'll let you know what I find out about the SD stuff. Keep up the good work!!! It's saving the rest of us major dough.

Ric

Uncletoad · #11 07-07-2006, 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ric Vice

Since Chris has had problems with the cables on his AMT not being very bullet proof and both you two have both preetty much "blown the lid "off the myth of the really expensive condenser being a whole lot better than the old reliable 57's and Sennheizers, I think I'll keep tuned to this channel and do a little more research. Thank's for the offer.
I'll let you know what I find out about the SD stuff. Keep up the good work!!! It's saving the rest of us major dough.

Ric

All props to Durrl on this one. I'm just a copycat.

For the record I think the AMT sounds better than the others in isolation. My issue with it is lack of gain before feedback and the awful cable structure.

FWIW if you don't move much and can stand mount something that may be an option. Or do the old muffin trick with the mic wrapped in foam in the arch of the bridge and wrap the cable around the TP cable once.

That's not gonna change the acoustics enough to bitch about.

**Adrian Cho** · #12 07-08-2006, 11:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uncletoad

Essentially Chris Pitzdurrl has been experimenting with a Sure Beta 57, and I've been experimenting with a Sennheiser 609. Both getting results like what you are looking at. The MD88 Beyer was also discussed but it is more expensive.

Correct me if I'm wrong but none of those mics are clip-ons right?

Uncletoad · #13 07-08-2006, 11:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adrian Cho

Correct me if I'm wrong but none of those mics are clip-ons right?

AMT, DPA and SD systems are "clip on" but over $500 US. Sennheiser 604 has a weird clip and not so great a sound. Might work for you though.

A clip on that is inexpensive and sounds good is tough to find. Do tell if you find one.

D McCartney · #14 07-09-2006, 11:03 AM

You might try to find a local DPA dealer and try this one out.
$430.00 or so. Name: DM02700.jpg
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**Adrian Cho** · #15 07-09-2006, 01:35 PM

So from searching around on the forums here it seems that it's either:

- ATM35 with a hypercardioid capsule
- Shure Beta 98 H/C
- Audix ADX-20i-hc

The ATM35 looks the most inconspicuous which would be nice. Pity you can't buy it with the HC capsule at the outset.

Aaron Saunders · #16 07-09-2006, 02:01 PM

"AMT", IIRC.

**Adrian Cho** · #17 07-09-2006, 07:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aaron Saunders

"AMT", IIRC.

If you search around here you'll see tonnes of AMT posts from me because I used to own one and for a long time I was one of the biggest supporters and promoters of it. I still think the AMT is great but it's not what I need now (nor can I afford one).

Adrian

Phil Smith · #18 07-09-2006, 09:50 PM

Your best price is probably here:

http://www1.shopping.com/xPO-Audio_T..._35_INSTRUMENT

They once had a package that included the hypercardiod element, but I don't know if they still do, however with the right deal you'll have cash left over to get the element and probably stay under $200.

**Adrian Cho** · #19 07-09-2006, 11:42 PM

Thanks. Do you know what the deal is with the cw which appears to be for wireless? When you look at the link you sent, a bunch of the ones that are cheaper are actually for the wireless version which apparently you have to plug into a wireless module. My guess is that if you take than and (if it's possible) then add the module to it run off phantom and XLR, then you end up at the same price as the plain old ATM35.

Brent Nussey · #20 07-10-2006, 01:23 AM

Hey Adrian.

Yes, I think you're right, the little connector off the ATM35 matches a certain brand of wireless transmitter, so I imagine they're selling just the mic without the power pack/adapter, and that's why the difference in price. If you find out more about this hypercardioid replacement capsule, please give me an update. I use one of these mics sometimes when I do gigs where carrying a mic on a stand is too much of a pain, and would be interested to find out more about the other capsule (what it's part number is, a good place to pick one up, etc).

I think one reason this mic has bleed problems is that a) it's a clip on, so it's harder to keep the drums in the "shadow" of the mic, so to speak, and B) they're usually positioned very close to the top of the bass. I think drums and room sounds are reflected off the top into the mic. So I'm not sure if the hypercardioid capsule would help that much or not... One thing about the AMT is that it has some sort of built in EQ preset to reject high end sounds like cymbals (and maybe glasses clinking etc...) I wonder if you couldn't do the same thing with just a good parametric EQ in your signal chain somewhere (one more thing to carry, I know....)

Anyway, keep me posted about the capsule thing.

Brent