Recording equipment- Ray Brown

dkziemann · #1 09-11-2009, 05:56 PM

Hey Guys,

I'm doing a recording session at my school's recording studio in about a month. My biggest influence is Ray Brown, and although I know that his sound his hard to mimic because we I don't have his bass, fingers, experience, blah blah blah I'm shooting for a recording (sonically) that's in that same style.

I know that on a lot of his recordings with the Telarc label he lists recording equipment used in the back of his albums. Would anyone care to list the microphones and other stuff on talkbass for me? In specific, I'm looking for Some of My Best Friends Are... The singers.

Any info would be greatly appreciated- thanks!

Danny

AMJBASS · #2 09-11-2009, 07:36 PM

This is a very difficult question to answer. We can probably give you an idea of the gear used, but even if you can find/rent it, trying to get a big sound like Ray had is almost completely dependant on the player. I recall reading an article that Ray wrote about the sound of the bass. He mentioned that one of his favorite all time recordings tone wise came from an microphone lying on the ground in front of his bass.

Here it is:

http://www.jazzprofessional.com/inte...%20Brown_4.htm

Generally you would probably want to use a large diaphram condenser mic in front of the bridge. As you move it further from the bass you will get less attack, but more ambient noise.

salcott · #3 09-11-2009, 09:06 PM

I've had good luck with a small diaphragm condenser mic hung in the bridge with a couple of rubber bands or scrunchies.

chris dammann · #4 09-12-2009, 12:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adrian Juras

This is a very difficult question to answer. We can probably give you an idea of the gear used, but even if you can find/rent it, trying to get a big sound like Ray had is almost completely dependant on the player. I recall reading an article that Ray wrote about the sound of the bass. He mentioned that one of his favorite all time recordings tone wise came from an microphone lying on the ground in front of his bass.

Here it is:

http://www.jazzprofessional.com/inte...%20Brown_4.htm

Generally you would probably want to use a large diaphram condenser mic in front of the bridge. As you move it further from the bass you will get less attack, but more ambient noise.

Thank you for sharing the article!!! it was a great read.

AMJBASS · #5 09-12-2009, 07:05 AM

For sure! I came across it in another thread here on TBDB. The other articles linked at the top are great reads as well.

The small diaphram between the bridge feet is also effective!

dkziemann · #6 09-12-2009, 07:47 AM

Hey guys, I appreciate the responses so far. I'm not looking for techniques per se, but just the actual equipment used. For example, in the back of the book for Encore At The Blue Note, and all of the Some of My Best Friends Are series have this information on the last page. I'm just looking for the actual equipment used. My school has a LOT of microphones, and if they have one that's been used on this recording, I'd like to try it out.

I know that this all depends on players, rooms, etc (because I worked at a studio) but I still would like to try.

Thanks!

Paul Warburton · #7 09-12-2009, 08:03 AM

+1,00 on what Ray says.
The Stratford live side has been with me since I started playing (the one where the mic was on the ground) in about 1956.
That is THE Ray Brown for me and always will be. His solo on "How High the Moon" was the first bass solo I copped note for note. He quotes "Without A Song" and "Buttons and Bows" on it...that killed me.
That is HIS sound. When he finally gave in and put that Polytone PU between the bridge feet something went away for me. It was still Ray, but he was too loud....just like he intimates in that interview.
Even now, with my favorite bassist Red Mitchell, I'd rather go back and listen to his stuff with just a studio mic on a vinyl.

Vetchking · #8 09-12-2009, 08:55 AM

Vetchking Here:
I'm a 56 yr old Producer / drummer.

The recording process is an art.

Producing is an art.

Engineering and mixing is an art.

Try to use 2" tape if at all possible. If possible run it at 35 IPS.

Get an old engineer. He knows about mikes.

Get an old producer to go in with you.

Use great mikes. Run a direct line and a miked channel.

If your ever around Youngstown Ohio, Call Peppermint Productions and seek out Gary Rhamy, He's one of the best engineers in the world.

Good luck.

Paul Warburton · #9 09-12-2009, 09:20 AM

Using large fonts is considered rude. It's like....yelling.
Double spacing each sentence is not considered polite.
Direct lines are not appropriate for double bassists who care about their sound.
Your post sounds like a pitch, IMO. (Nothing personal.)

jallenbass · #10 09-12-2009, 09:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vetchking

Run a direct line and a miked channel.

Boo! Hiss! Mics only.

Paul Warburton · #11 09-12-2009, 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jallenbass

Boo! Hiss! Mics only.

Let's not be too harsh, John. He freely admits he's a producer and drummer.............on second thought, never mind.

Marc Piane · #12 09-12-2009, 10:00 AM

The mics ain't the sound. Ray woulda sounded like Ray with a SM58. I understand what you are asking. The mice are really such a small part of the sound though.
That said I like the sound of large diaphragm stuff. I've had good results with dynamics (RE20) or condensers (like the U47). About 6" out from the bridge. Also in mixdown I tend to ask the engineer to roll off the real low stuff (>100hz) to clean up some low end mud.

That's me though with my bass and my hands. The big thing is trying to faithfully reproduce your sound while still getting it to sit nicely in the mix.

I'm predictable I know...

Dbassmon · #13 09-12-2009, 10:04 AM

There many ways to record a bass and just as many setups, mikes and processors. In the case of Mr. Brown, the technical recording was, in all probability a Sennheiser MD421HN dynamic or tube Neuman 47/67 or an AKG C-12 through a tube pre, on to analog tape. That does not even begin to address the sound captured on those recordings and is secondary to the real essence of the greatness those recordings.

In my opinion, without producing a great sound with your touch and musical sensibility, (your soul, your groove, your harmonic sense) all the gear in the world, Rudy VanGelder as your engineer, a 18th century carved bass will not make you sound like Ray Brown.

deaf pea · #14 09-12-2009, 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vetchking

...Try to use 2" tape if at all possible. If possible run it at 35 IPS...

That's an odd tape speed . . .

15IPS and 30IPS are the usual speeds used (with 15IPS offering more low end/more tape hiss and 30IPS offering a little less low frequency extention but with less noticable tape hiss)

jallenbass · #15 09-12-2009, 10:48 AM

I had the good fortune of recording with Telarc many years ago. Our orchestra had commisioned 3 pieces by African-American composers. On one of the movements I had a short solo and was solo miced. I remember Bob Woods saying as he positioned the mic that it was the same one that they used for Ray. The only thing that I remember about it was that it was rather small. Not a large diaphragm. Oh, and I ended up not sounding like Ray. At all.

mstclairmiller · #16 09-28-2009, 12:51 AM

I play in a band where the guitarist/leader always shows up with a different guitar each gig - either a really expensive vintage guitar or some cheezy POS he has found that he brought along for fun. The thing is, he always sounds great, and always has 'his' sound.

I think trying to replicate a sound using equipment lists is a recipe for disappointment. Use your ears. I'm sure that is what Rudy van Gelder would do if he came along to supervise the recording session - see what works with the available equipment, the performers on the day and the performance space.