RSII->Bass Buddy->Shuttle 6.0 - need some help

hgrind · #1 05-14-2008, 03:00 AM

I've recently bought a Genz Benz Shuttle 6.0 and a GB NEOX-112T for use with both electric and upright. I've gotten amazing sounds with my electric basses, but have little experience with such a rig for upright.

First, I tried plugging the RSII directly into the Shuttle. I got somewhere near decent with the LF turned down to 8-9 o'clock. I removed some finger noise with the mid at 9-10 o'clock, freq at 4-5 o'clock. HF at 12. Signal shape buttons: Only mid scoop pushed in.

I then decided to try the PJB Bass Buddy in front of the Shuttle, as it's a preamp with higher impedance input. When I did that (used the line out from the Bass Buddy to the Shuttle), I had to slide all the eq adjusters on the Bass Buddy all the way down. Then, with almost the same settings at the Shuttle as above, I got a lot closer to the sound I want. Is this normal? I would have thought I could set the Bass Buddy flat, or the Shuttle flat, and adjust on one of them. Still, the sound was a little boomy and had too much bass at the low strings. Think I'll try the Fishman Platinum Pro with high-pass filter to remove the boominess. Maybe I will get a more even sound across the bass, as it is when played unamped. I think the RSII is right fitted. The R is pointing up.

What do you think?

bolo · #2 05-14-2008, 06:24 AM

I agree a high pass filter makes a real nice difference with my setup. I have the "R" symbol flipped over facing the bass. The RS II does seem to pick up a lot of low end and infrasonics (stuff below the low E) that way on my bass. So the HPF is important. I set the rolloff freq at 70 Hz, which is higher than I thought it would need to be when I started out.

Just my two cents, but ... I think I get a good sound w/ my RS II, but I took a different approach. I set all the EQ knobs flat and left them there. Instead of turning EQ knobs I experimented with a series of slight adjustments to where the p/u was placed in the wing slot, and how tight or snug it was until I was happy w/ the tone. All this took me a long time, some careful sanding of the bridge and the p/u, and more than one Rev Solo to tell the whole story. Just lots of time and experimentation.

If you think your p/u is fitted properly now, that's cool. Just trace the outline of the bridge wing's foot onto the p/u itself, so if you do experiment, you can always get back to where you started.

jrlynch · #3 05-14-2008, 07:55 AM

from the shuttle manual:

"The input impedance is >500k ohms. The input stage contains a precision high order active high pass filter"

so there's no real need for an additional high pass, 'cept to further mess with the tone, *but* it can really benefit from a higher input impedance ... so adding something like the fishman, or cleaner and cheaper yet, fdeck's hpf. i keep mine now velcroed to the side of the amp.

jeff.

bolo · #4 05-14-2008, 08:08 AM

That's good info. I'm not sure what "high order active HPF" means, but I do like having the ability to adjust the frequency rolloff point for the filter, like on the HPF-Pre, the Fishman, or the AI heads. It works for me like a boom or thickness adjuster knob, and I do make slight adjustments to the rolloff point based on the room, musical style, other instrumentation, etc. A rolloff say at 40 Hz (which is a logical freq for bass) is still very boomy and thick w/ my bass and my rig. YMMV.

bolo · #5 05-14-2008, 08:18 AM

hgrind, I have not tried Garbo's. And I'm not familiar w/ Futura basses. Or 4/4 basses (whoa).

Are you happy with the acoustic or unamped sound, yes?

hgrind · #6 05-14-2008, 08:23 AM

Thank you for your answers. I've already tried to buy fdeck's pre/hpf, but it isn't available for sale outside the US. I think that would have been a great solution.

What I'm still wondering about is if it's normal that I had to move all the eq sliders on the bass buddy all the way down?

Marc Piane · #7 05-14-2008, 08:23 AM

Sorry to derail... I'm going to have to try out my RSII again. I keep it in my bag as my backup in case my Realist ever fails but I wasn't able to get a great tone out of it. Definitely good and usable and worthy of an easily installed backup but not as 'present' and gutsy as my Realist. I'm not planning on making a wholesale switch but I've heard so much good stuff here I need to mess some more. Back on topic. Sorry.

hgrind · #8 05-14-2008, 08:35 AM

Bolo, I'm very happy with the acoustic sound. And 4/4 isn't as big a difference from a 3/4 as many claims IMO.

Btw, I've gotten great sounds live with the RSII through the PJB Bass Buddy and to the mixer. And I will get a great sound through the GB rig also, but I think maybe a high impedance pre and a high pass filter will help me. Now I'm really tweaking the eq on the Shuttle. I might have to look into the fitting the RSII thing again, to make sure it sits properly.

bolo · #9 05-14-2008, 08:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hgrind

What I'm still wondering about is if it's normal that I had to move all the eq sliders on the bass buddy all the way down?

I don't think so. That would give you -18 dB cut at select freqs. Not sure what the Q or width of each slider is, but with them all down at -18 dB, that would give you an overall EQ shape with several steep dips or valleys in it.

bolo · #10 05-14-2008, 08:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hgrind

Bolo, I'm very happy with the acoustic sound. And 4/4 isn't as big a difference from a 3/4 as many claims IMO.

Btw, I've gotten great sounds live with the RSII through the PJB Bass Buddy and to the mixer.

Hm .. That good to know, and good for you. But it makes me think maybe the issue is the way the Bass Buddy is talking to the Shuttle. Maybe that's the link that is effecting the sound in ways you don't like.

Does the Shuttle have effects send and return jacks? If so, try bypassing the preamp section of the Shuttle by running the output of the PJ into the effects return of the Shuttle.

bolo · #11 05-14-2008, 08:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fingers

Sorry to derail... I'm going to have to try out my RSII again. I keep it in my bag as my backup in case my Realist ever fails but I wasn't able to get a great tone out of it. Definitely good and usable and worthy of an easily installed backup but not as 'present' and gutsy as my Realist. I'm not planning on making a wholesale switch but I've heard so much good stuff here I need to mess some more. Back on topic. Sorry.

Yeah, do it. I am putting a Planet Wing thru its paces, for much the same reasoning - easy backup, tonal options, and just 'cuz I'm curious. I still prefer the RS for my amplified gigging needs, but I'm not done playing with the PW. It seems to be a lot less fussy about fit and placement than the RS though. Didn't you have one of these at one point?

Marc Piane · #12 05-14-2008, 08:59 AM

Nah. I've been using the Realist since like '95 or so. I had an Underwood before that which was fine but fell head over heals for the Realist when I tried it. Haven't looked back.

agedhorse · #13 05-14-2008, 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bolo

I don't think so. That would give you -18 dB cut at select freqs. Not sure what the Q or width of each slider is, but with them all down at -18 dB, that would give you an overall EQ shape with several steep dips or valleys in it.

I don't think this would be a desireable approach either.

If the output of the preamp is true line level (like +4dBu), an in-line pad might help, but the Shuttle will handle pretty close to +4 by itself.

hgrind · #14 05-14-2008, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bolo

Does the Shuttle have effects send and return jacks? If so, try bypassing the preamp section of the Shuttle by running the output of the PJ into the effects return of the Shuttle.

Yes, it does. I tried that also. I'm not sure the Shuttle likes the Bass Buddy.

Anyway, I plugged it directly into the Shuttle again, and did some adjustment with the mids. I think that was the solution. I get a good natural sound now. I do think that the pre/hpf from fdeck would complete the setup, getting a higher impedance input and a high pass filter that would remove the little rumbling/boominess left. Too bad I can't get it.

drurb · #15 05-14-2008, 07:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bolo

I don't think so. That would give you -18 dB cut at select freqs. Not sure what the Q or width of each slider is, but with them all down at -18 dB, that would give you an overall EQ shape with several steep dips or valleys in it.

Indeed. It is not a good idea to push all the sliders down for precisely the reason you cite. Seems like the BassBuddy was overdriving the shuttle and pushing down the sliders was a way to reduce the output level. Just a guess.

hgrind · #16 05-14-2008, 11:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drurb

Indeed. It is not a good idea to push all the sliders down for precisely the reason you cite. Seems like the BassBuddy was overdriving the shuttle and pushing down the sliders was a way to reduce the output level. Just a guess.

I agree. I think I've read somewhere that the Bass Buddy has a really hot output, and it has seemed to be so in several cases.