sans amp with acoustic bass?

almal · #1 09-30-2006, 01:15 AM

does anyone have any experiance with the sans amp DI boxes? I've heard that they're great with electric, but I haven't heard how they perform with the acoustic bass. I'm also looking for any advice on getting the smallest rig possible. I constantly have to take my bass and amp on the metro, and it's a real drag. Any advice?

thanks
Alex

bassist1962 · #2 09-30-2006, 05:27 AM

I was considering the Bass Driver, but then was told about the Para Driver. This one has a setting specificly for Upright Bass, as well as electric and other instruments. I personally prefer Sansamp over several different preamps. I don't own one yet, but like everything else it's on my list.

B String · #3 09-30-2006, 10:49 AM

I use a Sansamp Acoustic DI for my upright bass and
my electrics. It does a good job with my Underwood
and Full Circle. It also works really well with my electric
basses. But I really love it with my ABG. Good di too.
The Para DI is a combination of the Acoustic DI and
Bass Driver.

PB+J · #4 09-30-2006, 01:04 PM

I used sansamp stuff for years--the bass driver DI, the rack-mount RBI, and a I still have a para driver. IMHO, it's not a good choice for double bass.

The sansamp stuff was initially designed to imitate the overdriven sound of a tube amp, and it does a good job of that. It has very powerful active tone controls, so you can do a lot of extreme tone shaping, which is good if you want to sound like another bass player or a different bass--if you want to go from James Jamerson to Chris Squire to Marcus Miller, say. But that's not usually the sound you want with double bass. I generally want a very clean, very flat, uncolored sound. My bass has a great acoustic tone--I want that tone, only louder. The sansamp "colors" the sound a lot--it tends to have a really pronounced mid-scoop, and to my ears the high end is grainy and harsh. The para driver has a mid control, but I still find it really hard to dial in a full, pleasant sounding midrange. I bought an avalon U5, and the first time I played through it the sans amp was retired for good.

Sansamp stuff is rugged, well made, and well designed. It sounds good if you want 80% of the tone of an Ampeg SVT with .1% of the weight, or if you want a lot of dramatic tone shaping and put range over sound quality, or if you want to add tubey-sounding dirt to yur tone. It's not expensive. But there are better units for double bass available for the same price. The Fishman ProPlatinum for Bass is excellent--it has a variable high pass filter, 5 bands of eq, a compressor, and a DI, and it sounds much much better to my ears than the sansamp. It's not as good as the Avalon, but it's better suited for double bass than the sansamp

just my opinion, others may disagree

bassdogEmer · #5 09-30-2006, 02:45 PM

I love the sansamp bass driver. It sounds great when used in moderation. It has a much better signal than most club standard direct boxes. It's rugged. I toured cross country with mine for three years and it never broke even once. It's small. It takes control of your sound and volume and puts it back in your hands on stage as opposed to up in the rafters with the soundman. It's a good product and I like it with upright bass. it has saved my a$$ on a number of occasions. plus for the price you cant beat it - check amazon - they have great deals.

mchildree · #6 09-30-2006, 09:48 PM

I've been using the Sansamp Acoustic DI for quite a while, and I've not found anything I like better, all things considered.

almal · #7 09-30-2006, 10:32 PM

But there are better units for double bass available for the same price. The Fishman ProPlatinum for Bass is excellent--it has a variable high pass filter, 5 bands of eq, a compressor, and a DI, and it sounds much much better to my ears than the sansamp. It's not as good as the Avalon, but it's better suited for double bass than the sansamp

Is the avalon more expensive than the fishman and the sans amp? Is it bigger? Would you reccomend using these DI's in a club without an amp? Are there more problems with feedback if you do that? If I could just carry one of these things instead of my amp, it would be incredible.
thanks for all of the replies.

PB+J · #8 10-01-2006, 08:43 AM

The avalon is pretty expensive--it's around $500 new. I paid less than that for a used one, but it's an expensive unit and it's pretty big and heavy--maybe ten lbs?. Probably around 8x10 by 5 inches deep. It sounds great, and I use it all the time as both a preamp and a DI. It has some nicely voiced eq filters that have always worked well for me and I've never really missed the eq controls of an amp. It's much bigger than the sansamp or the fishman proplat, and much heavier, but it's not unmanageable. I carry mine in a tool bag, along with a power amp and the cables etc.

You could easily use it without an amp--I've done it many times. But it doesn't have a lot of sound shaping options. Mostly, you send a really good signal to the soundman and hope for the best. Always be nice to the soundguy. Feedback is no more or less a problem than with an amp, IMHO--and if there's a sound guy, feedback is his problem. The valaon is a great unit, but it ought to be, for the price.

You might also look at the radial engineering JDV, which is very similar design to the Avalon (class A, high voltage) but much smaller, lighter, and a little cheaper ($399). It has hi and low frequency roll off, a phase reversal switch (which can be really useful for stopping feedback) and apparently sounds great. i've ever tried one, but I've been looking to.

The Fishman IMHO doesn't sound as good overall as the avalon--it's a little "duller" or "flatter" or something. But it's small, light, versatile, and can be run off a 9volt battery, which is cool, and it has a phase reversal switch which the avalon doesn't

B String · #9 10-01-2006, 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by almal

But there are better units for double bass available for the same price. The Fishman ProPlatinum for Bass is excellent--it has a variable high pass filter, 5 bands of eq, a compressor, and a DI, and it sounds much much better to my ears than the sansamp. It's not as good as the Avalon, but it's better suited for double bass than the sansamp

S'cuse me. If your logic made any sense at all, then
nobody would ever buy a regular Fender bass again,
because a bass with more knobs and active eq would
certainly be better. Right? ........ I don't think so.....
If the Sansamp, or the Fishman, or the L R Baggs, or
the home made 10 meg ohm pre sounds best to your
ear, THATS what you should use. Its just not always
what looks best on paper. I use an Acoustic DI, and I
like it more than my Raven Labs blender or my Fishman.
It just sounds better with my bass and pickups, plus
its smaller, with less hassle.

PB+J · #10 10-01-2006, 03:19 PM

Huh? B string, my "logic" was just that in my opinion, there were other preamps that sounded better with DOUBLE bass. It's not about knobs--I don't care about the number of knobs at all. I suggested that with an acoustic instrument, I want a very flat eq curve.

lots of people like the sansamp stuff, for good reason, as i said. I used to like it too, till I found something I liked better. Almal asked is anyone had any experience, and i did, and I shared mine, several times adding IMHO which means "in My Humble Opinion--that's it

B String · #11 10-01-2006, 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PB+J

Huh? B string, my "logic" was just that in my opinion, their were other preamps that sounded better with DOUBLE bass. It's not about knobs--I don't care about the number of knobs at all. I suggested that with an acoustic instrument, I want a very flat eq curve.

PB+J my brother. If you look at my "rant", you well notice
that it was in no way directed at you. It was in answer to
almal's post. You and I are mostly in agreement here.
Sorry about the mixup.

PB+J · #12 10-01-2006, 04:35 PM

gotcha--no harm no foul

shwashwa · #13 10-02-2006, 06:35 AM

everyone has a different bass and therefore a different opinion. as i have noted in a few other threads, i have the fishman, the sansamp para driver, and the avalon u5. i dont really like the u5 that much at all. i'm not going to sell it yet because for the money i spent i'm really trying to find a situation where it could be useful. for my bass i really like the sans amp and the fishman much better than the avalon. with the mid control of the sans amp i detect no mid scoop at all. some days i like the fishman better, mostly because of the high pass filter. if the sans amp had a high pass filter i'd never need anything else.

PB+J · #14 10-02-2006, 11:28 AM

Shwashwa, what don't you like about the U5? It's in heavy use as a di and preamp in a lot of places.

shwashwa · #15 10-02-2006, 11:39 AM

you and i have actually written to each other about this before in other threads. (maybe the summit di thread. was it the td 100?) basically, for my bass, it just doesnt sound good. believe me, i really want it to, and i've heard other basses where it sounds just amazing. i think i was one of the first posters on here who said how amazing marc johnson's tone was with it. (i live right outside nyc). unfortunately, my bass just sounds better with the other boxes. i'm dont think it's really an impedance thing either. i know the avalon is something around 3meg ohms. the fishman is 10meg and it sounds good with my bass, but the sansamp para driver is around 3 meg and it also sounds good. the raven labs has a 10meg imput, and my bass just sounds brittle through it no matter what i do. so i think i can rule out impedance. other than that, i have no idea...

gp_bass · #16 10-02-2006, 12:33 PM

back when i used an underwood + mic combination, i used the sansamp Bass Driver. it was nice to be able to dial in a variety of sounds, especially when gigs called for a fatter, more electric low end. i never liked to use it without the mic though.

i've also used it with my EUB and have liked it there. again, the pickup was an underwood, but i was less concerned with acoustic tone here.

i think that using it with a piezo pickup yielded 'pretty good' results. i've never tried it with another PU, so i'm not sure, but i think most of my gripes with the Bass Driver were that i could never sufficiently dial out the piezo sound. garbage in, garbage out i guess.

basss · #17 10-02-2006, 05:14 PM

I recently did a recording session and used both a countryman and BDDI as well as a mic. I prefered the sansamp over the countryman - more of a natural woody sound although the countryman had a bigger low end.

shwashwa · #18 10-02-2006, 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gp_bass

back when i used an underwood + mic combination, i used the sansamp Bass Driver. it was nice to be able to dial in a variety of sounds, especially when gigs called for a fatter, more electric low end. i never liked to use it without the mic though.

i've also used it with my EUB and have liked it there. again, the pickup was an underwood, but i was less concerned with acoustic tone here.

i think that using it with a piezo pickup yielded 'pretty good' results. i've never tried it with another PU, so i'm not sure, but i think most of my gripes with the Bass Driver were that i could never sufficiently dial out the piezo sound. garbage in, garbage out i guess.

one problem with the bass briver is that it doesnt have the proper input impedance to match with a piezo pickup. the para driver has that problem solved. you may like the para driver better. input impedance is very important when talking about piezos

PB+J · #19 10-02-2006, 05:28 PM

also some of the older sansamps didn't have al line level output, which made them less effective at driving a power amp. The newer models (like the para driver) have a switch that changes the output to more effectively drive a power amp

gp_bass · #20 10-03-2006, 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shwashwa

one problem with the bass briver is that it doesnt have the proper input impedance to match with a piezo pickup. the para driver has that problem solved. you may like the para driver better. input impedance is very important when talking about piezos

actually, i'm pretty sure the input impedance on my bass driver is at least 1 M ohms, if not 10. I felt that it had plenty of bass response, even without the active driver part activated. (For example, I also had a old Fishman bass preamp (not a pro or a platinum) with 10 M input and I thought the Bass Driver sounded better). The piezo nasaly quality was more due to it being an underwood, IMO. The sound was generally good, just not as pure as i wanted for the high end.