Searching for the right cabinet.

[nodnarb]

I'm looking to upgrade my cabinet and I'm curious on what fellow DB bottom enders would recommend. My setup with the DB is a Sure beta 56 mic running through a Focus 2R series III head. No pickups, I want the sound to be that of my Pollman with Velvet Anima strings only louder. My main gig is with a big band and my EA VL 110 won't cut it outdoors or in a large hall so I've been using an Eden 112XLT. I've come down to a few choices from reading all sorts of comments here.

Acme B-2
EA NL 210, CXL 112, or WZ 112

I'm leaning towards the Acme B-2 but I'm not sold yet. I would also like the cab to be nice with a 5 string EB but my DB is the main thing.
B-

[bolo]

Wow. Those all look like excellent options.

I would think the Acme B-2 and the NL 210 would go loudest w/out flinching, just due to the two 10s, if LOUD is a critical requirement. Then again I think the Acme is probably also the least efficient, meaning it would need mo' power to go mo' louder.

As for me, I have a regular Wizzy 12 and a Wizzy M-line. I like the M-line a little better than the regular Wizzer. The M-line handles a low B on slab better, although I have never really pushed it w/ my 5-string. And I like the top end of the M-line better for both slab and DB.

I will say that if I had never heard the M-line, I would still be delighted with the regular Wizzer. It served me extremely well for 3 years as my main cab, on upright 95% of the time.

[el_mariachi]

I just recently acquired a Wizzy M-line and an AI Clarus. So far both have far exceeded my expectations. This weekend I'll really get to test the rig out and expect it to work out very well. I briefly used the m-line with my previous head, an EA iAmp800. The cab handled that head like a champ and sound killer to boot. As you will read on this forum, when it comes to a good DB cab, EA is really hard to beat.

[Ric Vice]

Originally Posted by el_mariachi

I just recently acquired a Wizzy M-line and an AI Clarus. So far both have far exceeded my expectations. This weekend I'll really get to test the rig out and expect it to work out very well. I briefly used the m-line with my previous head, an EA iAmp800. The cab handled that head like a champ and sound killer to boot. As you will read on this forum, when it comes to a good DB cab, EA is really hard to beat.

You have the best amp for controlling a microphone because of the
notch filters and multi use inputs. Personally, I'd probably use the Focus III in your situation with a big band, but with the efficency of the Whizzy M Line and it's low frequency response, the Claris might be enough. I'm assuming that it's a Claris Series III. I never had any luck with my VL 110 and DB either, they are just to dark for upright IMHO. Good Luck.

Ric Vice

[el_mariachi]

well I don't play in a big band, that would be the person who started this thread. But yes my clarus is a series III.

[jhelsley]

As an NL-210 user, I just had to chime in...

I think it's fantastic for DB...it looks big, but it's very light and gets the most natural sound for my bass.


...my 2 cents...


(Folks ARE saying that the WZ-10's are pretty amazing however...)

[larry]

If you're only using a mic, I'd be tempted to try using a PA cabinet.

[jlilley]

+1 on the M-line Wizzy. I've been happy with my sound since it entered my life.
John

[drurb]

Originally Posted by bolo

I would think the Acme B-2 and the NL 210 would go loudest w/out flinching, just due to the two 10s, if LOUD is a critical requirement. Then again I think the Acme is probably also the least efficient, meaning it would need mo' power to go mo' louder.

Ah, but it doesn't work out that way. For example, the Wizzy-12 is rated at 103 dB SPL@1 watt/1 meter. It has a power-handling rating of 200 watts. 200 watts is 23 dB above 1 watt so at its rated power handling capacity the Wizzy will put out 126 dB SPL (103 + 23).

The Acme B-2 is rated at 93 dB SPL@1 watt/1 meter. That's 10 dB less than the Wizzy which means that, for a given output, it requires 10x the power! So, to get the Acme to put out the 126 dB SPL that the Wizzy can, you'd have to feed it 2000 watts!!! Of course, you can't do that. The Acme is capable of handling 350 watts. 350 watts is 25 dB above 1 watt, so at it's rated power handling, the Acme will put out 118 dB SPL (93 + 25).

This example demonstrates what is typical. Specifically, less-efficient cabinets usually cannot achieve the sound pressure levels that more-efficient ones can.

I'd be the last to claim that sheer output power is all that matters. Far from it! I was only addressing the output-power question here. As far as I know, the Acmes are fine cabinets. Finally, all of the specifics above are based on the assumption that the manufacturers have spec'ed the cabinets accurately.

[Ben Rolston]

Not to hijack but why do cabinet builders even make non-efficient cabs? Is there a downside to efficiency?

[nodnarb]

Originally Posted by bolo

Wow. Those all look like excellent options.

I would think the Acme B-2 and the NL 210 would go loudest w/out flinching, just due to the two 10s, if LOUD is a critical requirement. Then again I think the Acme is probably also the least efficient, meaning it would need mo' power to go mo' louder.

I'm not exactly worried about the Acme B-2 being under powered with my AI Focus head. If I got the 8 ohm B-2 I'd be pushing 800 watts into it which is too much headroom so I'd just have to watch not to blow it. If I got the 4 ohm B-2 then I'd be putting 450 watts in and I'm thinking that might be a little under power for those power hungry cabs.

Which cab do you find is more true to the instrument an Acme or a EA? (I know I'm really getting picky as I would probably be happy with any of these "hi fi" cabs.) I wish I had a way to A/B these two cabs next to each other.
B-

[drurb]

Originally Posted by nodnarb

I'm not exactly worried about the Acme B-2 being under powered with my AI Focus head. If I got the 8 ohm B-2 I'd be pushing 800 watts into it which is too much headroom so I'd just have to watch not to blow it. If I got the 4 ohm B-2 then I'd be putting 450 watts in and I'm thinking that might be a little under power for those power hungry cabs.

Which cab do you find is more true to the instrument an Acme or a EA? (I know I'm really getting picky as I would probably be happy with any of these "hi fi" cabs.) I wish I had a way to A/B these two cabs next to each other.
B-

Whether 4 or 8 ohms, the Acme B-2 is rated for 350 watts.

[drurb]

Originally Posted by Ben Rolston

Not to hijack but why do cabinet builders even make non-efficient cabs? Is there a downside to efficiency?

I could probably write a small book in answer to this question. Don't worry, I won't do that here. It's all about design choices and for what the manufacturer is shooting. There's an old rule in speaker design that the physics will allow you to have no more than two of following three:

1) small cabinet
2) extended low-frequency response
3) high-efficiency

The manner in which the compromises are made is often what reveals engineering creativity/good design or poor design. There is, however, no magic. Feel free to PM me if you'd like to know more. For the sake of the thread, I wanted to keep this brief.

I just couldn't resist one of my favorite examples. Want incredible efficiency and fantastic low-frequency response? How about a BIG cabinet that, in conjunction with the walls of the room, forms a GIANT low-frequency horn. Look here. I used to own a pair.

[nodnarb]

Originally Posted by Ric Vice

You have the best amp for controlling a microphone because of the
notch filters and multi use inputs. Personally, I'd probably use the Focus III in your situation with a big band, but with the efficency of the Whizzy M Line and it's low frequency response, the Claris might be enough. I'm assuming that it's a Claris Series III. I never had any luck with my VL 110 and DB either, they are just to dark for upright IMHO. Good Luck.

Ric Vice

The notch filter works wonderfully with my mic, so far I have no complaints on the AI Focus 2R other than the want of a mute switch on both channels. I've got a gig this Saturday where I'm going to use DB and EB so will see how it holds up.

I haven't been playing the VL 110 very long but I have been diggin' it. My Pollman has alot of midrange, as it seems most Pollmans do, and I feel that the VL110 adds some bass to it rather than overall darkness. I have yet to do a major sit down with the VL110 to really feel it out so my honeymoon period might be short lived, but my gig tonight went beautifully with it.

[nodnarb]

Originally Posted by drurb

Whether 4 or 8 ohms, the Acme B-2 is rated for 350 watts.

Yes the Acme B-2 is rated for 350 watts in either 4 or 8 ohms but the AI Focus head will have a different wattage when connected to either a 4 or 8 ohm cabinet. My comment was talking about headroom.
B-

[drurb]

Originally Posted by nodnarb

Yes the Acme B-2 is rated for 350 watts in either 4 or 8 ohms but the AI Focus head will have a different wattage when connected to either a 4 or 8 ohm cabinet. My comment was talking about headroom.
B-

The AI will deliver 800 watts into a 4-ohm load and 450 watts into an 8-ohm load, not the other way around. Either way, it's plenty for the Acme B-2. Regarding the term "headroom", check here.

[nodnarb]

Originally Posted by drurb

The AI will deliver 800 watts into a 4-ohm load and 450 watts into an 8-ohm load, not the other way around. Either way, it's plenty for the Acme B-2 plenty. Check here.

Wrote the numbers backwards, my apologies.
B-

[drurb]

Originally Posted by nodnarb

Wrote the numbers backwards, my apologies.
B-

No problem. PM me if I can help with any more technical aspects of your decision.

[bolo]

Originally Posted by nodnarb

Which cab do you find is more true to the instrument an Acme or a EA? (I know I'm really getting picky as I would probably be happy with any of these "hi fi" cabs.) I wish I had a way to A/B these two cabs next to each other.
B-

I am admittedly no sage, but sending a mic signal through my EA cabs produces what I consider to be a very "true" sound. I have never seen or heard an Acme unfortunately.

I think the EA's mid-range and their dispersion helps provide a great deal of clarity in live situations, so the audience (largely) hears what you intend for them to hear.

Then again, I've read that the Acme's forte is low end. So if you like the complimentary nature of the VL-110's low end, maybe the Acme would sound better to you w/ your Pollman.

FWIW, at least amongst the DBers who frequent this forum, I see lots of happy EA users. Not so many Acme's. Some B1's here and there. And I think many Acme users have stated that the low end can get kind of overemphasized and kind of takes over, especially as the volume goes up. With the EA's, the low end is tight and controlled, and they really shine in the mids.

Just generalizing, and trying to distill 2 and a half years worth of reading posts in this forum. My only experience with the cabs you listed is with the Wizzy and the Wizzy M-line. The NL-210 is one cab I would love to try too. And the new Wizzy 10 (or two).

[wingnut]

I use a CXL112 most of the time. I am very happy with EA products. So much so that I got a 110 wizzy and have a 112 wizzy on order. The CXL puts out a lot of bottom without getting boomy and it is crystal clear even at high volume. I use the 110 wizzy for practice and small venues. I drive both with a mark bass LMII.