Sell me on your pickup of choice!

[TroyK]

I'm having some work done on my bass next month that includes some cleaning up of my finish and I might take the opportunity to uninstall the Realist and try something else.

I've had The Realist for about 4 years and am generally happy with it. I get into some occasional stage sound issues, but I don't expect a silver bullet to that problem. My concern with the Realist is only the imprint that it leaves on the table. One is probably bad, but two, because I'll have to replace it eventually or because it just doesn't get back in exactly the same place, I'd like to avoid. Probably it could be a bit more articulate, but I don't want to go entirely the other way with my sound. I really don't like that direct, electro sound, even though it does cut through really nicely.

My bass is Czeck, probably a Juzak, but not labeled. Based on the varnish and importer ~ c1900, give or take. I'm a jazz player and tend to dig in pretty hard. My best amp is the EA 200 Wizzy combo. I also have a GKMB150 when portability is more important than sound and/or volume will be near acoustic.

As I said, I'm pretty happy with the sound of the Realist. I'm very happy with the fact that I can go straight to my (or any) amp without a pre-amp. I briefly tried a Rev Solo and hated it. Bless your heart, but I really don't want to hear about the RSII or how I should give it one more try. Likewise I don't think I could like any bridge wing pickup. They all have a similar quality that really isn't pleasing to my ears. I briefly had a Stat-B (like a week) as a loaner and liked it through some amps, but not others. I didn't have either of my good amps then, so I might be convinced to give it another try. I also noticed with it, however, that it damped the acoustic quality of my d and g strings a little, which I'm not really cool with.

So, something that won't hamper, damage or mark up my bass in any way after getting her gussied up. Something that sounds more woody that piezoesque. Of course, we all want the "my bass only louder", but I don't believe in that or The Mothman.

At the Seattle TBDB hang, I got to play with a Full Circle on a similar bass through my amp and liked it. It meets all my criteria and isn't very expenisve. Is there a quality/durability issue with them? How am I supposed to know if I have 1/4" bridge adjuster threads?

Does anyone who doesn't work for Velvet swear by the Dyn-B anymore? It's bloody expensive, but it's kind to the instrument. People seemed to generally fall out of love with them, blend them with something else and/or use the full Pub set up, which I'm not going to do. If I had to experiment with the placement to find the sweetspot, I'd be O.K. with that, but I wouldn't want to have to fiddle with it through all my gigs every time.

Did "Pick Up The World" pick up and leave the world? Did the Vector ever take off?

I re-read the 7 page Full Circle thread today and did some browsing on the others, but most of them are pretty old. Thought I would poll the Romans.

Talk to me. Convince me.

Troy

[hdiddy]

Dude, everything that can be discussed has pretty much been discussed. Maybe you just need to start buying everything in sight, just we all did with pups and mainly strings. Give us a call back when you got a drawer full of pickups.

Come to think of it, seems like the last frontier you haven't tried is getting a mic. How about pony'ing up and going for an AMT?

[PB+J]

Dyn-B still working for me--i don't love it, but I get the best sound with it of any pickup I've tried (bass max, rev solo I, Full Circle, Realist). As the volume goes up it starts to sound more like a piezo and gets harder to control. But if the volume stay moderate it sounds great on my bass

In order of preference, for me, on my bass, all the pickups I've tried

dyn-b
Full Circle
Realist
Rev solo I
Bass max

[Michael Glynn]

Hey Troy,

That was my bass you played with the Full Circle at the Seattle TBDB hang, right? So you know which pickup I like. Of course you also know that different basses like different pickups. If you are really serious about purchasing a different pickup, I would recommend that you do what I did: Go down to Hammond Ashley, tell them that you are definitely going to buy a pickup, and then ask them to put every single one that they have on your bass. I know you are not keen on the wing pickups, but you might as well try them if you are there. You never know, maybe the Underwood will sound totally perfect on your bass. Bring your Wizzy with you, too.

You might also remember that I usually blend the Full Circle with an AKG C411 contact mic (aka "the poor man's Dyn-B"). The C411 gives me a little more of the woody bass sound, but I have to cut out pretty much all of the mids with it or it sounds really honky. Blended with the Full Circle, I get the best mix of "real bass" sound, clarity, and feedback resistance out of everything I have tried. Does it sound like my bass only louder? Of course not. But it sounds pretty good in most situations.

Even on its own, I like the Full Circle better than the other pickups I have tried (Underwood, old-school Fishman, Stat-B, Realist, Bass Max). It had the least harshness of any of the pickups I tried (even the Realist) and sounds pretty darn good with the bow, if you're into that sort of thing.

[Monte]

Been using the Dyn B for years now. I still haven't found a better overall sound other than a mic, and I'm used to all the bad points of it and can quickly get a good sound out of almost any PA.

I love just bringing a preamp and playing through house PA's with it and leaving the rig at home.

Sounds really good through the Schertler Pub speakers, or if I'm providing sound support for more musicians, through the Bose L1 and 1-2 Bose B1

[TroyK]

You know, I had forgotten about your little contact mic. That was cool blended. I'm inclined towards the Full Circle. I really want to plug in and go and I feel like it's the 2nd most likely to the Realist to give me that. Our basses are not the same, but they're similar. As cool as the blend with the contact mic was, I don't think I want to do that. I really just want a good pickup because I have to have one. the Stat and Dyn-B's interest me, but it seems that most people who use them are into playing through PAs or similar type systems and while I may do that from time to time, I'm really more inclined to use my amp.

Not going to have a drawer full of pickups. For one thing, that drawer is full of strings. No room for pickups. The thing is that I like strings, but I don't like pickups, so I can't put myself through that. I also think that my tastes are narrow enough that there aren't that many things that I have a chance of liking.

Keep the comments coming.

Troy

Originally Posted by Michael Glynn

Hey Troy,

That was my bass you played with the Full Circle at the Seattle TBDB hang, right? So you know which pickup I like. Of course you also know that different basses like different pickups. If you are really serious about purchasing a different pickup, I would recommend that you do what I did: Go down to Hammond Ashley, tell them that you are definitely going to buy a pickup, and then ask them to put every single one that they have on your bass. I know you are not keen on the wing pickups, but you might as well try them if you are there. You never know, maybe the Underwood will sound totally perfect on your bass. Bring your Wizzy with you, too.

You might also remember that I usually blend the Full Circle with an AKG C411 contact mic (aka "the poor man's Dyn-B"). The C411 gives me a little more of the woody bass sound, but I have to cut out pretty much all of the mids with it or it sounds really honky. Blended with the Full Circle, I get the best mix of "real bass" sound, clarity, and feedback resistance out of everything I have tried. Does it sound like my bass only louder? Of course not. But it sounds pretty good in most situations.

Even on its own, I like the Full Circle better than the other pickups I have tried (Underwood, old-school Fishman, Stat-B, Realist, Bass Max). It had the least harshness of any of the pickups I tried (even the Realist) and sounds pretty darn good with the bow, if you're into that sort of thing.

[PB+J]

I use the dyn-b a lot of the time into either an avalon U5, a power amp, and a epifani UL 110, or into a markbass 112. it sounds good through the markbass, great through the Avalon. I agree that the dyn-b likes to see a really transparent sounding rig

[bolo]

Originally Posted by hdiddy

Dude, everything that can be discussed has pretty much been discussed. Maybe you just need to start buying everything in sight, just we all did with pups and mainly strings. Give us a call back when you got a drawer full of pickups.

Come to think of it, seems like the last frontier you haven't tried is getting a mic. How about pony'ing up and going for an AMT?

Hey Troy.

Boy, hdiddy and I must be like long lost relatives. We sure do think a lot alike at times. I have tried four types of pickups, three types of mics, and four types of amps for DB. Many people have tried more. For me, each progression gets better, but I have a gig bag full of old stuff I don't use anymore. I read and read and read, but in the end I just have to try it for myself to be sure.

Is a mic out of the question? My Beyer M 88 just showed up yesterday, thanks to larry and this thread from over the summer. I will post something somewhere after I have spent some time comparing it to my AMT.

I tried the DYN-B too, but it didn't work for me as well as it does for PB+J, Monte, Adrian, and others. But the gentlemen at The Double Bass Workshop was very cool. He let me try a demo. When I decided I wasn't going to purchase it, I sent it back and all I paid was the shipping. I think you just have to try it on your bass to know for yourself how it's gonna work out. Unfortunately, I think that's true for every type of p/u actually.

I haven't tried the FC yet because (1) I like my hardwood bridge adjusters, (2) I have been focusing on the mic thing - got one of these puppies now too, and (3) IMO my Rev Solo sounds really good for what I want a pickup to do.

Okay, so I can't convince you my favorite pickup is any good in your situation. That's cool - No need to. 'Cuz I know you've already tried it, and I acknowledge how you felt it sounded on your bass - and that's what counts.

[bolo]

Originally Posted by TroyK

I'm inclined towards the Full Circle. I really want to plug in and go and I feel like it's the 2nd most likely to the Realist to give me that ... As cool as the blend with the contact mic was, I don't think I want to do that. I really just want a good pickup because I have to have one ... I'm really more inclined to use my amp.

Er, um ... Then try the FC and let us know how it goes. A lot of people seem to really dig it.

Unless I leave the mic at home, my setup is not exactly "plug in and go" anymore.

Originally Posted by TroyK

Not going to have a drawer full of pickups. For one thing, that drawer is full of strings. No room for pickups. The thing is that I like strings, but I don't like pickups, so I can't put myself through that ... Troy

Bro, if you can't put yourself through it, then you'll never really know. In my case, I'd rather spend the money, the time and the effort, and hear it with my own ears. Like with my DYN-B experiment. And like with the Rev Solo. Fortunately, that one happened to work for me. But with the Schertler, it was painful man constantly wondering what it was gonna sound like, mulling over what other people said about it. Now, I'm over that.

[Uncletoad]

I had a FC and Realist installed on my bass at the same time and A/Bed them on several months worth of gigs. On my bass the FC and the Realist aren't that far apart. The Realist is more "authentic" if not a bit boomy and muddy at times. Conversely the FC is more articulate but at the expense of some electric bass sound at high volumes.

When at small jazz combo volumes both pickups sound very similar, it's only at rock band volumes I notice their distinction. In those moments the FC is supreme.

In both cases mixing with some mic input smoothes over the idiosyncrasies of either and the sound is much more "my bass".

The Rev Solo, Bass Max, Wilson and Underwood are all to "stringy" for my tastes. I have yet to use the Shertler stuff. The PUTW stuff is not a contender in my book.

If I need to amplify my bass and have to choose only one thing to do it with I'd use the Full Circle every time. The Realist is in my gig bag as a backup.

Caveats: I use a plywood NS Cleveland, I have to play to loud most of the time. Different basses, different players may have different experiences. YMMV.

[TroyK]

Quick responses in no particular order:

A mic is not out of the question. They just scare me a little because I'm not such a heavy cat that I'm in controlable environments with sound support very often. While I want that perfect sound, I don't expect it and the practicality of playing the gig trumps it slightly. Not to say that I don't care about my sound because I do. If I didn't, then none of this would matter.

If I could try a Dyn-B risk free, that might be the thing to do. I may look into orders and return policies. I really like the uninvasiveness of that system.

Still seems like the Full Circle may be the best choice for me. I hate that it requires a luthier and that I have to worry about my threads being the right size. Probably once it's installed it wouldn't matter and would be worth it.

Thanks for the advice. Keep it coming.

-tk

[PB+J]

All pickups involve some compromise--none sounds exactly like your bass. The Dyn-B sounds best for me, but in terms of cost/practicality, the full circle is probably a better bet. It's more feedback resistant and less finicky; it sounds fine on any bass; it's close to invisible. The realist, which I liked the sound of, is IMHO really ugly

If I were playing venues with a big stage, and a good sound system, I'd probably go with a stand or clamp mounted mic. Nothing sounds as good., But I'm just a local gigger and I'm always having to set up in some odd situation with no space or the amp is right behind me or the drummers too loud or blah blah blah. The Dyn-B sometimes has feedback problems where the full circle or the realist would not

[Uncletoad]

I have not yet on a large stage been successful with just a mic. Most of those gigs tend to be on the louder side though so if you play quieter more sensitive gigs ymmv. I think my favorite tones come from mixing both mic and pickup. Fitzbongald has done lots of experiments with mics and if you missed any of those recordings go back and check them out. It seems like just the mic or just the pickup by itself leaves a whole that the other plugs up well. Mics become less and less practical as the volume goes up in a club or on a big stage.

I wouldn't sweat the installation issues. If you are hiring it out it's totally not your problem, that's what you are paying for.

If you want to try it yourself PM me and I'll walk you through it. Even if your threads differ from what is available from fishman adaptation is not a huge issue. My Cleveland is adapted with helicoil inserts from an auto parts store and it's just studly.

I would love to try a Dyn as well. Anybody wanna loan theirs out and we can all pass it around to each other?

[larry]

Originally Posted by hdiddy

Give us a call back when you got a drawer full of pickups.

Lol. That's the deal. You won't know until you've tried them. No pickup will sound like the bass does - they will all leave you feeling like there is something better. So you'll buy another, etc. until you fill the drawer.

Originally Posted by hdiddy

frontier you haven't tried is getting a mic. How about pony'ing up and going for an AMT?

That is also true. Mics are a pain, but it's the only way to get the actual acoustic sound of the instrument amplified in a natural way. I don't believe the AMT is the holy grail; like pick ups, different mics will appeal to different players - and there are much cheaper options that sound absolutely great.

The ultimate situation, IMO, is to have both a pick up and mic, and the ability to switch between them or blend them. And also to be able to send them to different sources - For example, to send the pickup to your amp and the mic to the PA, etc.

To answer the original question, I like the Revolution Solo best, followed by the Full Circle.

[bolo]

Originally Posted by hdiddy

Give us a call back when you got a drawer full of pickups.

Originally Posted by TroyK

Not going to have a drawer full of pickups. For one thing, that drawer is full of strings. No room for pickups.

Originally Posted by larry

That's the deal. You won't know until you've tried them. No pickup will sound like the bass does - they will all leave you feeling like there is something better. So you'll buy another, etc. until you fill the drawer.

I need to learn to be as concise as larry. My experience has been what he said.

[bolo]

Originally Posted by TroyK

A mic is not out of the question. They just scare me a little because I'm not such a heavy cat that I'm in controlable environments with sound support very often.

Likewise Troy. I usually don’t have PA support either.

And as for "controllable environment"? Ha ha!

Originally Posted by larry

The ultimate situation, IMO, is to have both a pick up and mic, and the ability to switch between them or blend them. And also to be able to send them to different sources - For example, to send the pickup to your amp and the mic to the PA, etc.

The Solstice works great for doing just that. Most of the time it is feeding a blended signal to my amp, but I do have the capability of sending just the mic (or blended signal) to the PA in the rare situations where there actually is a PA. A two-channel head would perhaps do the trick too I reckon, except maybe for splitting separate lines out.

[bolo]

Originally Posted by Uncletoad

I would love to try a Dyn as well. Anybody wanna loan theirs out and we can all pass it around to each other?

Originally Posted by TroyK

If I could try a Dyn-B risk free, that might be the thing to do. I may look into orders and return policies. I really like the uninvasiveness of that system.

Yo fellas – I guess I needs to repeats myself.

Originally Posted by bolo

I tried the DYN-B too ... the gentlemen at The Double Bass Workshop was very cool. He let me try a demo. When I decided I wasn't going to purchase it, I sent it back and all I paid was the shipping. I think you just have to try it on your bass to know for yourself how it's gonna work out. Unfortunately, I think that's true for every type of p/u actually.

If you're serious about it, check it out. Just click on that second italicized underlined dealy above. The fella I talked to at The DB Workshop was very helpful and straight up about the terms of the trial. Like I said, in the end all I paid was shipping for the return. Thanks go to PB+J for turning me on to this place and their whole DYN-B no risk trial demo thing.

I hope somebody buys one. He sure was nice to me, and I felt kinda bad sending it back.

And I hope you like making worms out of putty. You'll see.

[TroyK]

Oh I didn't miss that. I was on his site today listening to the clips and reading his very liberal return policy.

Still mulling, but I feel a plan coming on.

[Chris Fitzgerald]

I've tried most of the products out there at one time or another, and I couldn't be much happier with the FC and the Beta 57 combination. You need a blender, but there it is. You've probably seen it, but I've got a thread around here somewhere with sound clips, and it sounds much better out in the air mixed with the real sound of the bass than it does on those clips straight into the board. The real upside to this setup is that it's versatile, and you can get as loud or as quiet as you want as long as your amp placement is good.

I think Phil likes to use a more expensive mic than the Beta with his FC. I can't remamber what it is, but it's a square gold side address dynamic that costs about 2 or 3 times as much as the Beta57. Dunno if it sounds 2 or 3 times better, but anything is possible.

[Uncletoad]

Originally Posted by Chris Fitzgerald

I think Phil likes to use a more expensive mic than the Beta with his FC. I can't remamber what it is, but it's a square gold side address dynamic that costs about 2 or 3 times as much as the Beta57. Dunno if it sounds 2 or 3 times better, but anything is possible.

I'm a champaign taste fellow for sure.

The mike I use is a Sennheiser MD409. Out of production and hard to find. They sell between $300 and $500 on Evilbay. It's Fuqua's mic choice too btw.

It has a cheaper cousin in the Sennheiser MD906 at just over $150 that is fantastic as well and a younger sibling the MD 609 at about $100. I found the 609 to be similar to the Beta in sound (albeit a bit brighter with less low mids) but easier to use with no impact on the afterlength of the strings. I think the 906 is almost the same sound as the expensive 409 and worth the dough over the Beta or the 609.

If I buy another mic for my bass it would be the Sennheiser 906.

ymmv.