Small light power amp? VESTAX????

[Co.]

Lately I've been thinking about getting a really small lightweight power amp, to plug in my DTAR Solstice for the medium to high volume gigs. The only thing I found for bass amplification was the AI Focus SA, wich is ridiciously expensive. What do you think of this: http://cgi.ebay.com/VESTAX-VDA-1000-...3286.m20.l1116

Vestax VDA-1000
4 ohm = 2X 390W (1KHz, 0.5% THD)
8 ohm = 2X 240W (1KHz, 1% THD)
Dimensions (mm): 262x103x320
weighs ca.4kg/8.8 pound

Powerful enough for my needs, very small, very light, very inexpensive. Too good to be true?

[seamonkey]

I saw a DJ using the vestax. It was loud
I believe Vestax is well known in the DJ world for good quality.
The ratings are in EIAJ - a real standard.
It's not meant for rack mount. It has some nice features

I see other DJ amps are starting to come in lightweight versions
http://www.overstock.com/Electronics...0/product.html

[Co.]

So why are there no real light weight power amps for bass, that are affordable?
What is the difference between an amp like the Vestax and the Focus SA?
Is there a reason, why this amp could not work with double bass?

[wsmerwin@hotmai]

http://www.acousticimg.com/products/prod_coda.html

http://www.markbass.it/products.php

http://www.eaamps.com/product_detail.asp?ID=286

http://www.tcelectronic.com/rh450.asp

There are others old and new. With the right cabinet and preamp there is probably nothing wrong with using the Vestax.

[jsbarber]

Have a look at the Flying Mole DAD-M100:

http://www.stereotimes.com/amp021804.shtml

You might want to check with Vunz. He uses two of these, which he has attached to a pair of Glockenklang Acoustic Art MKII speaker cabinets. [Although I believe he typically just uses one.] He has been using them for a couple of years now. There is a version with speakon connectors. I believe they rate the power at 160 watts into 4 ohms.

Jim

[seamonkey]

Originally Posted by Co.

So why are there no real light weight power amps for bass, that are affordable?
What is the difference between an amp like the Vestax and the Focus SA?
Is there a reason, why this amp could not work with double bass?

I can see no reason why the Vestax wouldn't work.

Do you really need that much power? Are you using AI type low output, but full-range cabinets?

[Co.]

Originally Posted by seamonkey

Do you really need that much power? Are you using AI type low output, but full-range cabinets?

For normal jazz gigs I usually carry a GK150P with my Solstice. Great sound loud enough. Halve of the time I end up having the amp switched off couse my bass is fairly loud by itself.
At gigs with my own bands, I need quite a bit of volume for keeping up with a loud drummer and my fx. I like using loops, a digitech whammy, filters... so I need some power. For those gigs I use a SAD DBA-1 Speaker. 1x12", 1x10", TW. Great sounding cab but It weighs around 66 pound, so the last thing I need is a heavy power amp. At the moment I use the power section of the MB150P as a power amp for the SAD. Together thy give me plenty of volume but sometimes the GK really heats up and I don't know how long it will take the abuse.

[HelgeBas]

I'm using an ARCO DB510 500W, a digital combo amp specifically designed for double bass.
The digital j-fet preamp and the digital class D power supply and amplification means that you get much more power out of the amp than a traditional transistored amp (the manufacturer claims that 90% of the consumed power goes to build the sound). It weighs less than ten kilograms. It has 2 inputs, one for a piezo pickup, and another for other pickups, also for electric basses.
It has a very natural sound, at least as natural as it can get with my old Underwood pickup. To my ears, only the loudness of the sound tells me that i'm playing my DB through the amp.
A well known Danish Jazz bassist, Jesper Lundgaard, has assisted in the developing of the amp. See the specifications here:

http://www.cadaudio.dk/arco_db510.htm
__________________________

HelgeBas

[seamonkey]

The Arco DB150 looks like an interesting amp.
You mention "digital" but I note the manufacturer CAD Audio is wise not to. Class-d is not digital, and the j-fet preamp is far from it. Calling it "digital" doesn't really matter, but digital preamps and signal processing is for real and it can be a point of confusion.

CAD audio has been around for a while, but I just haven't heard a lot about them. I would like to hear them, but they don't seem as accessible in the US

[HelgeBas]

Originally Posted by seamonkey

The Arco DB150 looks like an interesting amp.
You mention "digital" but I note the manufacturer CAD Audio is wise not to. Class-d is not digital, and the j-fet preamp is far from it. Calling it "digital" doesn't really matter, but digital preamps and signal processing is for real and it can be a point of confusion.

CAD audio has been around for a while, but I just haven't heard a lot about them. I would like to hear them, but they don't seem as accessible in the US

Well perhaps you're right, I'm a musician, not technician. I've just been told that ARCO DB510 is digital - and it works fine for me!.

CAD Audio also calls it a digital amp, look here:
http://www.cadaudio.dk/bassamps.htm

For more about what's inside the CAD amps, someone perhaps find this interesting:
http://www.cadaudio.dk/cadpwmmodules.htm

Or this:
http://www.cadaudio.dk/frankfurt_info1.pdf

CAD Audio is a small firm. I don't think they have any retailers in the US, so if you are going for an Arco, you probably has to order it directly - without hearing it first! Or try Ebay, I've seen one there some time ago.

You really can't tell anything from soundclips, the sound of an amp depends on so many things - instrument played, preamps, the mangement of the tone controls, the musician...

As for the musician, I have found this biography on Jesper Lundgaard, who has helped in developing the ARCO db510:
http://www.google.com/translate?langpair=da|en&u=http://www.vinding.dk/jesper_lundgaard/jesperdansk.htm

He is a very skilled bass player, and the Arco is also recommended by two other well known Danish double bass players, Mads Vinding and Bo Stief.

And by me

[seamonkey]

I agree - you can't tell anything from a soundclip. You need to get the amp in your hands and try it at several rehearsals and gigs before you can know what it can do. So I only buy from stores that allow a few weeks try out and return it if it doesn't work out.
I hope CAD audio gets a US distributor to allow this eventually, it does look interesting.

[HelgeBas]

Originally Posted by seamonkey

I agree - you can't tell anything from a soundclip. You need to get the amp in your hands and try it at several rehearsals and gigs before you can know what it can do. So I only buy from stores that allow a few weeks try out and return it if it doesn't work out.
I hope CAD audio gets a US distributor to allow this eventually, it does look interesting.

Give them a call, maybe you can figure something out - it's worth a try

[scotm]

Dear Arco friends, the internet adress given in this wwwcadaudiodk/bassamps
adress is wrong.

The correct adress is:
www.arco-amplification.com
This adress is managed by Mr. Jesper Lundgaard himself (in Denmark), and its here you'll get the TRUE Arco amplifier.

The ARCO DB510 has been renamed to B510 so you know when you get the newest and TRUE Jesper Lundgaard bas amplifier.
Check out his homepage for other models too.

The ARCO is the best amplifier I've had (I play jazz on my 3/4 acoustic bas). Before the ARCO I've used Polytone, GallienKryger, Acoustic Image (CODA) but ARCO gives the most natural sound. The amplifier is very transperant and the bass still sounds like a acoustic bass, and not like a electric bass.

best regards

Scotm

[kmcad]

hi, no the link to helges amp is correct , you are giving link to jespers new amp which is not the same,
perhaps its worth mentioning that his "new" amp is more than twice as expensive

karsten madsen - http://www.cadaudio.dk/bassamps.htm

ps, the 2 danish bass player also recommend and comment on the original combo...

[HelgeBas]

Originally Posted by kmcad

hi, no the link to helges amp is correct , you are giving link to jespers new amp which is not the same,
perhaps its worth mentioning that his "new" amp is more than twice as expensive

karsten madsen - http://www.cadaudio.dk/bassamps.htm

ps, the 2 danish bass player also recommend and comment on the original combo...

Yes, I can confirm what Karsten says. It's Cadaudio that's making the db510 amp, but Jesper Lundgaard owns the Arco name. Unfortunately they have split, so the db510 is not called Arco any more. But it's the same amp.

My db510 is an early version, and it works very well with my Max Hoyer contra, plugged into the #1 input. It just sounds if you're playing a very large contra!
I have had some problems with my new 5-string Sandberg Custom Thinline, which has an active pickup with a very powerful signal - the #2 input for electric basses on the db510 was too sensitive. But Cadaudio has adjusted it perfectly now and added more power to the low frequensies. I have been told that they'll do the same adjustments on new amps too.

It's really a great amp, and Cadaudio has more in the store. The db510 is mainly made for contrabass, but they're developing other lightweight combos, as you can see by visiting the website: http://www.cadaudio.dk/bassamps.htm

And no, I'm not being paid for saying this - I really think they're doing a great job The only reason for not scrabbing my old vintage Marshall combo is that I'm such a sentimental old guy..

[scotm]

Dear friends
I agree, the ARCO brand is owned by Jesper Lundgaard, but theres a 200% difference between DB512 and the B512. If you are a acoustic bassplayer you are looking for a amplifier that sounds like your bass. The DB512 was state of art for for a short period and I was happy. But after testing my DB512 (side by side) with Jesper Lundgaards new ARCO B512 I wasn't able to play on my old DB512. The danish bas players I known are having the same experience, so if you are looking for the ultimate amplifier for acoustic bas playing, pay what it cost and be HAPPY.
So check out: www.arco-amplification.com
Info:
My DB512 has seriel no. 014 (but has been repaired and adjusted by Jesper Lundgaard)
My B512 has seriel no. 007 (hand build by Jesper Lundgaard)


Best regards
Scotm

Originally Posted by HelgeBas

Yes, I can confirm what Karsten says. It's Cadaudio that's making the db510 amp, but Jesper Lundgaard owns the Arco name. Unfortunately they have split, so the db510 is not called Arco any more. But it's the same amp.

My db510 is an early version, and it works very well with my Max Hoyer contra, plugged into the #1 input. It just sounds if you're playing a very large contra!
I have had some problems with my new 5-string Sandberg Custom Thinline, which has an active pickup with a very powerful signal - the #2 input for electric basses on the db510 was too sensitive. But Cadaudio has adjusted it perfectly now and added more power to the low frequensies. I have been told that they'll do the same adjustments on new amps too.

It's really a great amp, and Cadaudio has more in the store. The db510 is mainly made for contrabass, but they're developing other lightweight combos, as you can see by visiting the website: http://www.cadaudio.dk/bassamps.htm

And no, I'm not being paid for saying this - I really think they're doing a great job The only reason for not scrabbing my old vintage Marshall combo is that I'm such a sentimental old guy..

[scotm]

Dear friends
I agree, the ARCO brand is owned by Jesper Lundgaard, but theres a 200% difference between DB512 and the B512. If you are a acoustic bassplayer you are looking for a amplifier that sounds like your bass. The DB512 was state of art for for a short period and I was happy. But after testing my DB512 (side by side) with Jesper Lundgaards new ARCO B512 I wasn't able to play on my old DB512. The danish bas players I known are having the same experience, so if you are looking for the ultimate amplifier for acoustic bas playing, pay what it cost and be HAPPY.
So check out: www.arco-amplification.com
Info:
My DB512 has seriel no. 014 (but has been repaired and adjusted by Jesper Lundgaard)
My B512 has seriel no. 007 (hand build by Jesper Lundgaard)

Best regards
Scotm

Originally Posted by kmcad

hi, no the link to helges amp is correct , you are giving link to jespers new amp which is not the same,
perhaps its worth mentioning that his "new" amp is more than twice as expensive

karsten madsen - http://www.cadaudio.dk/bassamps.htm

ps, the 2 danish bass player also recommend and comment on the original combo...

[Jaromir]

So now I have trouble to get the real picture. Is the new Arco combo really so much better compared to the original (and upgraded) CAD stuff to justify 1.100 Euro price difference?
What can be the difference, if the two are basically the same amp? Isn't it rather a subtle difference? And isn't this difference matter of personal taste?

[scotm]

Hi Jaromir
Its always a mather of personal taste. My taste is a amplifier that is transparent so you get as much acoustic bass as possible. The difference is that old model has a cabinet constrution that limit the bas frequencies. The new ARCO B512 has a cabinet that solves that problem. Then B512 has been build with the best electronic components which has been hand picked by Mr. Jesper Lundgaard.
Contact him to get all the informations of what differencies there are between the two models.
www.arco-amplification.com
Anyway I've tried them all Polytone, GallienKryger, Acoustic Image (CODA), over the years. When I bought my old Arco I thought it was it! But a year after I tried the B512 and compared it to the old model, and was not able to go back.
A bas collegue had the same experience the other day..he ordered the B512 the same day!!!
Hope you find what you are looking for.

Originally Posted by Jaromir

So now I have trouble to get the real picture. Is the new Arco combo really so much better compared to the original (and upgraded) CAD stuff to justify 1.100 Euro price difference?
What can be the difference, if the two are basically the same amp? Isn't it rather a subtle difference? And isn't this difference matter of personal taste?

[Jaromir]

Hi Scotm,
thank you for your explanation. I have one more question: did you have a chance to check the improved version of the DB-510 combo?
This is from the CAD Audio website:

We are happy to introduce an upgraded version of DB510 called DB510 MkII, several improvements has been incorporated ; high input levels wont overdrive the input, substantially more possible low bass output (will be welcomed by those who play also electric bass) and still of course under control by the effective low-cut filter and the improved bass control with much larger control range.

So it sounds like people at the CAD were aware of the limits and tried to upgrade the combo...