Smallish mic to use with the h-clamp

sas · #1 04-20-2009, 03:13 PM

Hi,

for live purposes, the Heil PR-40, brilliant as it is, is a bit too heavy to mount on the h-clamp (for my purposes, anyway, agitated and all). Since the stubby version is not forthcoming, anybody care to share there experience with a lighter mic that comes close to the Heils talents, small diaphragm maybe?
I'm not only concerned about hypercardioid and thus minimizing leakage, but also containing the proximity effect that boosts lows when close-miking- the instrument sounds pretty dark as it is, and I will be contending with stage noise galore.

thx

Marc Piane · #2 04-20-2009, 05:31 PM

I tried a bunch of mics (AKG C1000S, Audix D2, Audio Technica Dynamic, Shure Beta 56, Shure Beta 52) and settled on a Shure Beta 57A. Surprisingly the SM58 is really good too. A little darker though. I use mine blended with a Realist so I was looking for one that got as much air and detail to compliment the Realist but still pretty good rejection.

jrlynch · #3 04-20-2009, 06:25 PM

the trick with the pr40 and the h-clamp is to score a sabra-som shock mount for the mic. the heil is a great mic, but the "mic clip" that comes with it is a lovely chunk of machined metal, but heavy as hell. the sabra-som mounts weigh next to nothing, and makes the heil a viable choice.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sas

Hi,

for live purposes, the Heil PR-40, brilliant as it is, is a bit too heavy to mount on the h-clamp (for my purposes, anyway, agitated and all). Since the stubby version is not forthcoming, anybody care to share there experience with a lighter mic that comes close to the Heils talents, small diaphragm maybe?
I'm not only concerned about hypercardioid and thus minimizing leakage, but also containing the proximity effect that boosts lows when close-miking- the instrument sounds pretty dark as it is, and I will be contending with stage noise galore.

thx

sas · #4 04-23-2009, 01:26 PM

Thanks fingers and jrlynch for your thoughts.
I went to the Sabra-Som site, the SSM-1 (if that's the one you're referring to) looks interesting, though I'm not sure how secure the massive PR40 will be. Is there a special merit to that particular brand, or would this
http://www.thomann.de/at/millenium_s...sal_spinne.htm
do just as well?

anyway, another option to explore. I also hear about the Shure Beta series a lot. The SM58 (or 57, which I'd prefer of the two for this application) doesn't quite cut it for me, although rejection is quite good.

Chances are one would be coming up with a different pick depending on band, stage, backline, monitoring etc. The challenge is too delicate to warrant a single answer.

jrlynch · #5 04-23-2009, 09:17 PM

it appears to be the same thing, which is cool. the only tweak i've done with mine is to wrap an elastic "pony tail holder" on the back of the microphone, just behind the shock mount's elastic bands, to keep the mic from sliding around ... other than that, it works like a champ.

i'd chill on the rockabily choreography, but ... the setup works.

jeff.

jallenbass · #6 04-24-2009, 08:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fingers

I tried a bunch of mics (AKG C1000S, Audix D2, Audio Technica Dynamic, Shure Beta 56, Shure Beta 52) and settled on a Shure Beta 57A. Surprisingly the SM58 is really good too. A little darker though. I use mine blended with a Realist so I was looking for one that got as much air and detail to compliment the Realist but still pretty good rejection.

Can you elaborate on the Beta 57A -vs- the D2?

youngheo · #7 04-24-2009, 12:51 PM

I use Audix D2 with great success. Lots of gain b4 feedback.

Marc Piane · #8 04-24-2009, 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jallenbass

Can you elaborate on the Beta 57A -vs- the D2?

Totally different. Night and day really.

The D2 was my go to mic for a little while. Because of the size it is very easy to place where you want it. It has a much darker sound with a definite low/mid bias. I still keep it in my bag just in case a particularly brittle sounding room comes along.

The Beta57A has a much more airy sound. At first I was not real happy with it but after experimenting I was able to get a really complex sound with it right over the G side ff hole at about a 45 degree angle to the top.

Both mics have about the same rejection and pattern.

The other thing that tipped the scales was I started messing with a mic and my Realist blended through my AI. The D2 worked well as a stand alone mic but did not really compliment the Realist the same way the Beta57A did. Right now I use as much mic as I need for volume and enough Realist to add girth to the sound. Together they are great and I have actually been sending a blended signal to the house via the XLR out on the amp. I know I have harped in the past about send mic only to the house but I have had nice results this way.

It'll change next week.

mandocaster · #9 04-28-2009, 03:57 PM

Does anyone use a small diaphragm condenser mic like a akg 451, neumann 184 with an h-clamp?

Marc Piane · #10 04-28-2009, 05:00 PM

the AKG C1000 is a small diaphragm mic

mandocaster · #11 04-28-2009, 05:26 PM

true

A little bit of searching didn't turn up a lot of references of using SD mics with the H-clamp. I saw one post about a sweet sounding set up with a KM 184.

I have an AKG blueline SD mic with the cardioid capsule. I tried rubber bands between the bridge feet, but it picked up too much finger noise (and my breathing!). I'm thinking that an H-clamp might allow better directional control.

Marc Piane · #12 04-28-2009, 06:04 PM

My experience was too much bleed. The tone was not drastically different than the Beta 57A and it has a MUCH tighter pattern.

Boppingtheory · #13 04-29-2009, 01:12 PM

Here there’ s the homemade solution I adopted for live purposes

http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=aV29IKS0

http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=gx1d1By9

The mic is a Superlux S241/U3, a small diaphragm condenser fed by the mic channel phantom power of the Schertler UNICO II

Here attached two sound clips

http://www.freesound.org/samplesViewSingle.php?id=71295
http://www.freesound.org/samplesViewSingle.php?id=71296

Tanglehead · #14 04-29-2009, 02:05 PM

Take a look at the Josephson C 42 - I happened upon a stereo pair my duo partner was using on his Santa Cruz acoustic guitars and they are really nice on bass too, and they're smaller than most. For recording we used one ona stand just below the G string F-hole and another up by the but to get the fingerboard sound.

On a live gig, another bass player, who is a Heil user, thought they sounded pretty cool and I wouldn't be surprised if he's trying them out after seeing them in action...

They weigh 3 ounces and pack a significant punch.

good luck.

brian casey
portland, or

flatback · #15 04-30-2009, 01:18 AM

yea funny you should mention the josephsen c42...I am about to buy a matched set for recording live to 2 track (into an apogee duet)...I was half thinking of getting the Octavas with the different heads thinking that the HC might be good for bass, bet then I heard the Josephsens and I really dig the sound...I wasn't thinking of them for live use though because they are not a super tight pattern) , but i'll sure try them.

Marc Piane · #16 04-30-2009, 07:07 AM

I've been trying to go almost totally mic lately and I've found that the tightness off the pattern is key. Obviously the sound of the mic is important too but that is why I dumped the AKG C1000 after trying it. The sound was really nice and I didn't have feedback problems per se. When things get crankin' though I could hear drums through my amp. Personally I like to be real close to the drummer (for that matter I like a tight setup in general) with my amp between the two of us almost a little behind him.

mandocaster · #17 04-30-2009, 09:13 AM

When my akg was pointed up, I sounded like a wheezy old man(oh wait... I am a wheezy old man), and handling noise and speaking got amplified.

61pollmann · #18 04-30-2009, 12:30 PM

I recently switched to using an Audio Technica ATM450 with my H-Clamp. It is a high quality condenser with one big difference from many mics--it is side-address. It is also small and light. The side address allows you to position the mic with much more precision, and allows the whole assembly to take up less room. It does require phantom power, but I use it into the second channel of my Acoustic Image Focus, which has phantom power. Having this on my Pollmann, along with a Full Circle, gives me lots of options on gigs. I will try to post a photo later so you can see my setup.

flatback · #19 04-30-2009, 07:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fingers

I've been trying to go almost totally mic lately and I've found that the tightness off the pattern is key. Obviously the sound of the mic is important too but that is why I dumped the AKG C1000 after trying it. The sound was really nice and I didn't have feedback problems per se. When things get crankin' though I could hear drums through my amp. Personally I like to be real close to the drummer (for that matter I like a tight setup in general) with my amp between the two of us almost a little behind him.

that is what i so loved about the Heil pr 40. if you had that thing aimed at your bass there was so much good juice and so little bleed. when I had the stubby version of the heil it was bliss. I sure wish bob would run off a cuppla too tree of those mics. but i aint holdin my breath and have moved on.