Speaker/Cabinet Sugestions

[JYD]

To go along with my other posts.

Anyone feel qualified enough (personal experience counts) to give advice on speaker(cabinet) combos.

What is the current speaker technology theory for Acoustic Bass.

Combine the answer with thoughts on what might work with
GK Amp
Walter Woods Amp
Acoustic Image Amp
All driven by Fishman pickup.
I'll take all suggestions and input.

[Barefoot Larry]

Originally posted by JYD
To go along with my other posts.

Anyone feel qualified enough (personal experience counts) to give advice on speaker(cabinet) combos.

One thing you need to think about is what kind of frequency response you're going to require in a cabinet.

Is 40Hz enough low end? 50Hz? Maybe 30Hz? Will you have a low "B" string to worry about?

Some "bass cabinets" around especially a lot of them with 10" speakers, tend to only go down to 55Hz, or 50Hz, and I don't know whether or not that would cover an open "B" string.

How low is low enough for a 4-string bass, or for a bass with a low "B" string? Are you a 4-string player?

Most of those amps will have a low end lower than your bass, or any cabinet, but that will do you no good if you get a cab that won't go below 75Hz.

[Rimas]

Your answers will be found throughout the 'amps' section of this forum. Thats what this section is about.. amps and speaker cabs. Check out bergantino, euphonic audio, bag end, acoustic image, epifani, and the likes... what you want with acoustic bass is the flattest sound possible coming from your amp and your speaker.

[Bob Branstetter]

Originally posted by Barefoot Larry
Is 40Hz enough low end? 50Hz? Maybe 30Hz? Will you have a low "B" string to worry about?

E = 41.203 Hz
C = 32.703 Hz
B = 30.868 Hz

[Marty Forrer]

In my experience, that real low fundamental is not required anyway, most of what we hear is 80hz and up. The fundamental tends to muddy up the sound on DB. For jazz gigs I use a GK combo, and if necessary a Bag End 1x12 extension cab. Neither of these would go below 60hz, yet I'm still cutting bass on the EQ. For country/rockabilly gigs I use an Eden head with a SWR 4x8 and the Bag End 1x12, and the 4x8 is not a very deep cab, yet I still run the EQ dead flat.
My opinion is that real low frequencies are not necessary for DB, because the DB has so much inherent bass in it's sound anyway, unlike BG which needs a fair bit of help in the bottom end.

[Bob Branstetter]

Let's see if I have this right. The only string we need the fundamentals on is the open G string since it (at 97.999Hz) is the only one above 80Hz.
Interesting Theory.

[Chris Fitzgerald]

Originally posted by Bob Branstetter
Let's see if I have this right. The only string we need the fundamentals on is the open G string since it (at 97.999Hz) is the only one above 80Hz.
Interesting Theory.

I've wondered about this as well. My experience with recording has taught me that - for my bass, at any rate - anything under 80hz on the recording sounds like muddy crap, so I EQ it out. So the fundamental frequency of many of the notes I'm playing on the recording is gone, and yet I can still hear them just fine...and not only that, but they sound CLEARER and more focused than before. kind of like an "auditory illusion". But what's really going on here? I don't doubt what PARTY FAVOR is saying at all because my experience has brought me to similar conclusions. But does anybody know what (if it exists) the scientific basis of this phenomenon might be?

[JoyfulMike]

I just received my new B112 from Dave at Avatar. Playing through a K & K Bass Max directly (no preamp) into the GK MBE, I'm getting a great tansparent sound out of the B112!

As I play pizz on the bass and gradually add volume from the amp/speaker combo, I only hear a louder sound from my bass, not a different sound!

I always liked the MBE amp, but was never 100% comfortable with the sound from the combo speaker without a lot of eq tweaking. I also felt I needed a second cabinet for more sound in bigger venues, but didn't want to carry anything with two hands.

After shopping the Aguilar 12 cab, Bergantino's 12" cab, and even considering one of Rich Raezer's beautiful cabs, I discovered Dave's web site, gave him a call, and saved myself about $200-350!

It seems to work well for my 6 string fretless, too, but my quest was to get my URB to sound like my URB in a room with 200 people. I think I succeeded!

Can't wait to try it with my other URB, a mid-sixties Kay.

Anybody else have the same results with this cab on URB?

[swingfingers]

Originally posted by Chris Fitzgerald
So the fundamental frequency of many of the notes I'm playing on the recording is gone, and yet I can still hear them just fine...and not only that, but they sound CLEARER and more focused than before. kind of like an "auditory illusion". But what's really going on here?

I have a limited technical knowledge on this subject but would like to try to respond and perhaps follow up with a question.

As I understand it, if we can't hear some notes' fundamentals, our ears will fill them in based on the overtones they hear. Our auditory memory of the harmonic series tells the ear what frequency (or "note") the fundamental must be. The fact that it is not present but the ear fills it in is an auditory illusion, like Chris said, sort of like an auditory version of the more common visual illusions (ie many of the drawings by Escher).

The low notes without the fundamental can sound clearer because the fundamental may be so low that the human ear has a harder time processing it. A good example of this is the theory of neck-through versus bolt-on electric basses (I know this a DB forum but I’m hoping many readers may have some experience with BGs). Neck-through basses are favored by some, in part, because they have more fundamental in their sound. Some people, however, find that bolt-on basses have more punch and can cut through a loud band more easily. The bolt on may cut through better to some ears because it has less fundamental in the sound. Thus this principle may apply to both sides of the aisle – or forum – BG as well as DB.

The following is what Michael Tobias said about the topic (copied from an article on the net…):

The ear (or, more precisely, the brain) has the ability to "fill in" the missing components of the sound spectrum. Without the actual fundamental in place to muddy the sound, the ear is able to "extrapolate" the fundamental from the upper partials. The telephone is an example of this principle in action: When you talk on the telephone, the mechanism (which is really a miniature bass-reflex cabinet) is not capable of transmitting the fundamental, especially if you're a man with a fairly deep voice. Yet the person on the other end hears it just fine.

I got a chance to speak to Michael Tobias a while ago and he said that the Ampeg SVT (a huge bass amp that I think has successfully powered loud rock bands for years) doesn’t put out much below 100hz! I was also told by Larry Ullman of Euphonic Audio (EA) that Walter Woods amps don’t put out anything below 100hz!! (any WW users able to verify this??!!)

Presuming that this information is essentially accurate, I find it strange that some speaker manufactures, and some musicians, are so concerned with whether or not their speakers go down to 30 hz vs 40 hz etc. Depending on the amp a player is using, the speakers’ frequency response below 80 hz or so could be superfluous. Regardless of the amp, it seems like the presence of very low frequencies could actually make the bass less clear in a performance situation, depending on the circumstances.

QUESTION: I’ve tried my DB and BG through a WW and a few different speakers and found the sound lacking in bottom end (...and top end). Then I tried the same BG and WW but through an EA cab and it sounded fantastic – flat with what sounded like plenty of bottom (and top). Could it be that the EA cabs (and a few others…) are just so smooth and flat between 100 and 10-15Khz that it fools the ear into making it sound as though the frequencies below 100hz are not only there but reproduced better than other speakers? I would be interested in hearing from anyone who has had similar experiences and/or has knowledge in this area.

[chadds]

The SVT sounds like it doesn't go below 100hz. It has a distorted mid grind rock sound perfect for that genre. Use your ears not the specs. Ray Brown and Ron Carter used Polytone Mini Brutes for years. Little 1x12 or 1x15 combos with 100 watts. Essentially shadowing the sound of their instrument. Tone is in your fingers. An engineer told me that upright players he records don't know how to get the sound out of their basses, they are so used to being amplified they can't make them project.