Speakers? Heads? Combos?

klem.gote · #1 03-02-2009, 04:13 PM

Hello everyone,

I've never been an "equipment guy", I've owned a total of 2 amps since 1972. Just bought the second one a year ago, SWR WorkingPro 12, and I use a Fishman Pro-EQ Platinum into the effects jack in the back. Pretty happy with it, but I have some questions. Overall, is it better to go with separate speakers and heads as opposed to combos? Which has more to do with the sound, the head or the speaker? If I continue using the EQ to tweak my sound, which setup would be best for me? I'd appreciate and info or advice.

Thanks!!

Marc Piane · #2 03-02-2009, 04:28 PM

bolo · #3 03-02-2009, 06:10 PM

I think I prefer separates vs. combos. Allows you to upgrade one component or the other later, or use different size speaker cabs for different gigs / rooms with the same head. But if you get a combo that does what you want and does it well, that's great too.

The head and the speaker both contribute to the overall sound, yes? Maybe in different ways, but both are important. There's a ton of info in this forum on these.

IMO the best sound is one that doesn't need a lot of EQ. Trying various strings, taking my bass to a luthier, and working on my technique has helped me get a better tone regardless of the equipment.

Not trying to be glib or evasive. You just touched on three pretty wide open topics. Like I said, there's a lot of great info in this forum. Welcome to TBDB.

Marc Piane · #4 03-02-2009, 06:59 PM

It's just too wide open to even begin and the answer is going to be different from every player. It also matters what mood swing each player is on. Change one piece of gear and that opens the door to everything else in your signal chain. Fact is some pieces of gear just work well together (on certain basses) and some don't. You'll find guys 'round here with a gear list a mile long 'cause they went down that road. I'd bet every one of them has an old standby though.

Personally I've gone tons of places but I always seem to come back to my trusty GK MB150S combo with Spiros and a Realist. I recently bought a GK MBX 112 extension speaker for louder gigs. If those together are loud enough I'll play chop. Everything else is just collecting dust.

As much as we like to talk about the whole "my bass only louder" thing it is like chasing Sasquatch. We are looking for a close approximation. Find something that does that for you then forget about it.

Bottom line... if it ain't broke don't fix it.

Ric Vice · #5 03-02-2009, 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by klem.gote

Overall, is it better to go with separate speakers and heads as opposed to combos?

Yes, but small combos are more convenient

Quote:

Originally Posted by klem.gote

Which has more to do with the sound, the head or the speaker?

Both do in equal measure.

Quote:

Originally Posted by klem.gote

If I continue using the EQ to tweak my sound, which setup would be best for me? I'd appreciate and info or advice.
Thanks!!

It's impossible since we can only give you suggestions on what might work. As Fingers said "If It Ain't Broke Don't Fix It.

klem.gote · #6 03-03-2009, 01:22 PM

Hi,

Well thanks for the input, I know it's a wide-ranging subject. I'm pretty happy with the SWR for now, just want to get a little more informed before I decide on whether to try something else. I know some guys who love their GKs, but I haven't had a chance to use one yet. I've always felt that you need to worry about getting a good sound out of the bass first, and I agree thatt less tweaking is better!! Well, I'm not going to rush into anything, but I appreciate the thoughts!!

Thanks!!

anonymous02282011 · #7 03-03-2009, 01:48 PM

In my experience, preamps, poweramps and speakers cabs can all have a drastic effect on the sound. No one setup is necessarily better than another.

Getting a good sound from the bass first gets a big +1 from me. If you're amp is working for you now, I'd just go with it instead of wasting time, energy and money in trying to find something different.

fdeck · #8 03-03-2009, 07:46 PM

In the past, my knee jerk reaction would have been to recommend a combo for portability. But now the micro heads have gotten so small that they fit in the bag with your cables, fake book, parking meter change, personal protective apparatus, and so forth. My thought is that, in order of importance:

In my view, while lots of things affect tone, speakers are the hardest to deal with if they don't sound and work right. For instance an excessive midbass hump, or lack of high end, are not easily compensated by typical amp EQ. Another problematic area is if an amp has an aggressive electric bass voicing that can't be dialed out. My best results have come from a speaker that is tailored to the tone that I want, and a relatively flat amp.

I know players who are happy with that SWR for both slab and DB.

bolo · #9 03-04-2009, 08:55 AM

klem.gote, looks like you were a working musician before some of us were a twinkle in their daddy's eyes.

I am not far behind you pal. Bought my first amp in 1974. Some Ampeg, what was it, er ... oh yeah, SVT.

Since you started the thread, I presume you are game to try new things. I say go for it. Read up here all you like. Tons of info to point you to what people favor these days. That's what this forum is all about. Then experiment if you are so inclined. Spend as little or as much effort as you like.

As I said, welcome to TBDB. Have fun. And make a good sound.

klem.gote · #10 03-04-2009, 09:55 AM

Yes, I've been playing since the Civil War I think!! Played a lot of gigs in high school on a bad school bass with no amp, so I learned how to work a bass long before amping it. That first amp was an Ampeg, the piggy back kind with tubes, had a 15 inch Altec. Dragged it all over the country for years. Played a lot of EB too, doing mostly DB now. Decided on something a little smaller with the SWR, but have never kept up with equipment over the years so I feel like I've got some things to learn. And I have learned a lot here already, reading all the posts, a great resource!! But I'm not one to keep buying and trading stuff so if I decide to make another move I just want to have as much info as possible. Thanks to all for the input!!

bolo · #11 03-04-2009, 10:53 AM

Good to have you with us.

If you come up with specific questions about this or that as you search, you know where to find us.

klem.gote · #12 03-04-2009, 11:57 AM

Thanks man, I do appreciate it!! Just going to keep reading for a while, no imminent moves for now, but if I do something eventually all the info I've gotten here will be very helpful!!

akmusicfreak · #13 03-16-2009, 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fingers

As much as we like to talk about the whole "my bass only louder" thing it is like chasing Sasquatch. We are looking for a close approximation. Find something that does that for you then forget about it.

Bottom line... if it ain't broke don't fix it.

+1
love the metaphor Fingers

klem.gote · #14 03-16-2009, 06:24 PM

I thought I saw Sasquatch one night. Of course, it was very late one night, a couple of hours after a gig. Then I remembered I was in FLA.

KontraKurt · #15 03-17-2009, 06:37 PM

[quote=bolo;7060242]I think I prefer separates vs. combos. Allows you to upgrade one component or the other later, or use different size speaker cabs for different gigs / rooms with the same head. But if you get a combo that does what you want and does it well, that's great too.

I have an AMT and have to buy an AI. The question is Head or Combo. Combo is all in one and for a lower price than a Head plus a cabinet.

If trying a Combo and some problem follows (some have trouble with the subwoofer that is directed downwords the floor) - is it possible to disconnect the inbuilt speakers and add a cabinet instead?

David Santos · #16 03-18-2009, 01:52 PM

Quote:

I have an AMT and have to buy an AI. The question is Head or Combo. Combo is all in one and for a lower price than a Head plus a cabinet.

If trying a Combo and some problem follows (some have trouble with the subwoofer that is directed downwords the floor) - is it possible to disconnect the inbuilt speakers and add a cabinet instead?

Hi! If you have decided about getting an AI you might want to wait for the new combos. The new coda r combo will have a removable focus head in it (in fact it will be a clarus but it'll have the power of the focus) so you can use the head with another cab. They will also have a new combo with a more proeminent front firing sound (one 10' facing the floor and another 10' in the front).

David Santos

bolo · #17 03-19-2009, 05:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ingvar

I have an AMT and have to buy an AI.

Ingvar, David Santo's advice in his latest post is excellent. [ Edit - I understand that the specs for the new AI gear is now available at their web site. ]

I might add though, that maybe I misunderstood what you meant, but are you saying you have to buy an AI because of the mic cable from the AMT and you need an XLR input on your amp? I guess I'm assuming you have the regular S25B preamp for the AMT, not the SP25B "Super."

If so, you can take the XLR mic cable and convert it to a regular 1/4" instrument cable using one of these that will then plug into a 1/4" input jack on "any old" amp. Thanks to Bob Gollihur, robgrow and others who have posted about this before.

KontraKurt · #18 03-21-2009, 05:29 PM

Thank you David. Interesting note. I will absolutely wait for better stuff.

Thank you Bolo. The thing is that I bought the AMT S25B without any know how to run it. I am not educated at all like all of you guys seems to be. I just put in an old Roland Cube - without any success - of course, becasue I know better now. Then I tried to run the AMT trough a Tapco 60 mixer and then from the mixer to the Cube Main in. That was better but far away from my expectations. My dealer gave the mail address to Ron at AMT and he answered as follows;

" First of all.. These are microphones and not pickups.. Microphone are meant for equipment made for microphones.. IE... a PA system. The amps your talking about are meant for pickups..

There's a difference between line level and microphone level. A mic level input (XLR) get's it's gain from the mic input stage.. Your putting a microphone into an amp that's looking for a pickup stage.. A pickup doesn't hear anything, it will never sound as true and clear as a microphone, however you need to connect the microphone to a PA system..

You were on the right idea when you connected the microphone to the tapco mixer.. this is correct.. XLR out of the mic preamp to the XLR input on the mixing board.. however you connected back to the amp that is made for the pickup.. Try connecting that tapco mixer to a PA system with speakers like that.. This should give you a good sound..

It's sort of like your trying to combine a Ferrari engine with a Yugo car...

Acoustic images amps will work better than your Cube.. HOWEVER.. you must get the version that has the mic (XLR) input.. I wouldn't get the version that comes with it's own speaker.. (combo).. You need to combine the acoustic image head with a better speaker..

OR try connecting your Tapco to a powered JBL speaker.. Treat this like a microphone NOT a pickup ".

bolo · #19 03-22-2009, 12:11 AM

Ingvar, thanks for posting that info from AMT. That's kind of what I thought they were thinking. But

Quote:

Originally Posted by bolo

Although connecting it to a PA will probably result in a more "full range" sound, and although some ordinary amps might sound better than others, you certainly can connect it to an amp. I have.

Everything Ron said is true of course, about the incompatibilities with the input stages on a typical instrument amp designed for a pickup. But some bass amps are designed for mic inputs too, like the AI. And their are others. And actually I do know people who connect their AMT to their AI combo amps (Contra, Coda), so I am not entirely sure why he singled out their combos.

I think another common problem is feedback. A speaker behind you (with the mic in front of the speaker) is going to feedback at a much lower volumes than PA mains that are typically out in front of you. If you think of how you set up a vocal mic on a stage, you want the mic behind the PA speaker line. Otherwise ... "squeeeeee", the mic feeds back.

That's why when people talk about using a mic, I like to know if it's to their amp, or to a PA.

If you have a PA on your gigs, definitely try that route. I typically don't, but I dig the mic sound so much I run it into my amp and work within all these constraints as best I can.

Marc Piane · #20 03-22-2009, 02:00 PM

Never been a big fan of the mic into amp thing. I've found it to be more trouble than it's worth. That said I always run a mic to the pa if there is one. Beta57 on an H-Clamp over the E-side ff hole

*edit - and the for the record I did a gig the other day with my Clarus through my GK MBX112 (ext cab) and it was pretty cool. A little more headroom than just the combo and a more transparent sound. ****, the can of worms is open again. Luckily I have all the different gear that I swap between. Wallet is safe.