SWR Spellbinder Blue or Markbass Mini CMD 121P?

walking_line · #1 06-04-2009, 05:23 PM

Hey there,

I've recently come to the realization that I need a better amp for my upright (Traynor cube... ouch, I know). I'm a former pro full-time classical player that played a bit of jazz here and there and used to borrow amps from my buddies. I used to use my friend's SWR Baby Blue and liked it a lot. Fast forward to today--I've got a steady gig playing my upright in a band: one that can get loud from time to time and I'd like a small portable amp that can pack a bit of punch when needed. Also, I need something that is suitable for electric when need be.

I've narrowed my choices to these (I know there are others: AI, Genz Benz, etc.), but these seem to be the most suitable, cost effective, and easiest to order in Canada. Here's my problem: no one stocks either of these, so I either have to order/buy both and return one, or just go ahead and buy one of these sound unheard (so to speak).

I like the tube preamp and the on-board compressor of the SWR (and if it sounds anything like the BB, which I'm assuming it does, then great), but I like the additional available power of the Markbass with an extension cab (and I've been hearing good things about these, including some reviews here on TB).

Anyone played either or both of these? Thoughts? I know the SWR is pretty new and there doesn't seem to be a lot of 'real-world' info and reviews of it out there, so I'm curious of anyone has any experience with these.

Thanks.

macmrkt · #2 06-05-2009, 07:48 AM

The Markbass will play a lot louder, deeper and work great for DB. The pure tone on the SWR might be appealing on lower volume DB and it has a ton of features. Club Bass in Toronto has Phil Jones combos as well as Markbass and Dave, the owner, has been a good source of info. I'm sure he can ship you if you can't get there.

yamaha · #3 06-05-2009, 08:04 AM

The Spellbinder blue has on of the most amazing tones I've ever heard

The 121 is one of the loudest mini rig out there, and nice tone, but SWR's tone is much better IMO

I tried The spellbinder with a 112XLT ext cab once, and I was blown away.

yamaha · #4 06-05-2009, 08:05 AM

Where in Canada are you

dmusic148 · #5 06-05-2009, 08:09 AM

I have an original Baby Blue(died years ago) and it was very good for acoustic bass. Be aware though, the Spellbinder isn't quite the same as they've changed the power amp section to a high-tech switching type(like the MB stuff). Don't know if that's good or bad, just different.
These days I don't play acoustic anymore but have been using a MB head for electric and it's terrific, very even, full sound.

walking_line · #6 06-05-2009, 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yamaha

Where in Canada are you

I'm in Calgary.

TroyK · #7 06-05-2009, 09:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yamaha

The Spellbinder blue has on of the most amazing tones I've ever heard

The 121 is one of the loudest mini rig out there, and nice tone, but SWR's tone is much better IMO

I tried The spellbinder with a 112XLT ext cab once, and I was blown away.

I hate to jump into a thread that I don't have any business in, but as a resident in the doublebass forum who uses our search function extensively, I live for the searchable forums to be clean as well as the fact that I like to see people get good advice.

You have several electric basses in your profile, but no mention of "upright basses". Are your comments about the tone and performances of these amps limited to your experience with them with electric bass guitars? If so, it's an important distinction as amps perform very differently with piezo pickups and that appears to have been an important part of his question.

Can you please clarify your response?

walking_line · #8 06-05-2009, 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by macmrkt

The Markbass will play a lot louder, deeper and work great for DB. The pure tone on the SWR might be appealing on lower volume DB and it has a ton of features.

Yeah, that's my problem. I don't need a crazy loud rig; the band I'm gigging with is primarily an acoustic band (amplified of course) with an excellent drummer that has a light touch, but now and again we do gigs at bars that aren't listening crowds and we try to rock it out a bit more and it gets a bit louder.

I recall that the Baby Blue had enough power for a big band, so I'm thinking that the Spellbinder with its 10" speaker should have enough meat for my purposes. I had been thinking about getting a 'do-it-all' rig, but maybe that's the wrong approach. I already have a couple of big rock rigs (that I hate lugging around) for electric, so maybe I just suck it up and keep those. Right tool for the right job, I guess.

I am going to the shop today and going to try and see what my chances are of ordering both and trying them out and buying one. Not great I think. So, I might just have to order one of them and if I don't like it, return it later. Right now I am leaning towards the Spellbinder.

One weird thing though: it has phantom power for a mic, but it's 15v. Not sure what mic that would work with, but not a big deal... I'm not sure I would ever use it with a condenser anyway.

walking_line · #9 06-05-2009, 11:40 PM

Ok, well, I went to the L & M to order one of these tonight (thought I was going to buy the Spellbinder) and walked out with the Markbass. They had it on the floor. It looks like someone had it at home and returned it (had some cat hair on the carpet), and I paid more than I'd like ($1275 CDN). But, they do have a price match guarantee (for any store in Canada), and worse comes to worse, if I don't like it, I can return it for full refund within 30 days.

I was at my girlfriend's tonight, so I could only try it on my electric, but this thing has cohones for miles for such a small box and sounds like you can dial in some good tones. I am looking forward to trying my upright out on it tomorrow.

Anyone know of cheaper prices for these in Canada? I'd still like to try the Spellbinder, but if I like this, then it looks like this is my rig...

**Freddels** · #10 06-06-2009, 05:32 AM

It's about $200 less here in the states (without finding a deal) but you'd probably spend that much traveling to the US to get one. Interested in your opinion of it with your DB.

macmrkt · #11 06-06-2009, 09:05 AM

Note - I found the CMD to sound much better on a chair for DB and on the floor for BG. This was not subtle - very pronounced improvements. Also, many modern piezo pickups can go right into the CMD without an additional preamp.

Reflecting more... neither of these combos is completely neutral sounding. Both do sound very, very good though. The CMD has a lot more low end and volume which would make it the choice for most I suspect. The Spellbinder has more gadgets and might be preferred for studio use.

walking_line · #12 06-06-2009, 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Freddels

It's about $200 less here in the states (without finding a deal) but you'd probably spend that much traveling to the US to get one. Interested in your opinion of it with your DB.

Yeah, I've seen them for 9 bills online in the US. By the time you pay the shipping, tax and duty, it would likely be close to 12 bills CDN. I'd love to pick one up used but just don't have the time to wait around for one to come up.

I will definitely post my impressions once I put it through its paces. I'm going to play it with my upright presently. Should be fun.

walking_line · #13 06-06-2009, 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by macmrkt

Note - I found the CMD to sound much better on a chair for DB and on the floor for BG. This was not subtle - very pronounced improvements. Also, many modern piezo pickups can go right into the CMD without an additional preamp.

Reflecting more... neither of these combos is completely neutral sounding. Both do sound very, very good though. The CMD has a lot more low end and volume which would make it the choice for most I suspect. The Spellbinder has more gadgets and might be preferred for studio use.

Thanks for the tips. It will be interesting to see how the placement affects it with the rear port too. I have a Fishman preamp, so if I need to use it, I've got it. If I can lose it, then great. Simpler setup = better.

Yeah, I think the Spellbinder would definitely be the studio rig over this one. As this is going to be primarily a gig rig, it may be my best option. I like the idea of such a small package packing such a big punch. My days of lugging 2 x 15 cabs up and down stairs are over. If I can show up to the gig with the bass on my shoulder and this under my arm, then I am a happy man.

macmrkt · #14 06-06-2009, 02:00 PM

Nothing against Ampeg, but I remember when I had my CMD and walking into a club that provided an Ampeg SVT2Pro head and 8x10. My CMD was cleaner and I think louder. But then again, that SVT2 might have needed tube work as it was 'the house' rig and didn't seem very healthy. But we did get a kick out of the size difference.

walking_line · #15 06-06-2009, 03:44 PM

I'm just curious if anyone has any thoughts on this: since the 121P is basically the Little Mark II in a cab and that head has been discontinued in favour of the Little Mark III, do you think they'll update the combo to include the Little Mark III? It does have one feature that I'd like: the balanced out that's switchable to post & pre EQ (the 121P is only post, but can be re-wired for pre).

**Freddels** · #16 06-06-2009, 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by walking_line

I'm just curious if anyone has any thoughts on this: since the 121P is basically the Little Mark II in a cab and that head has been discontinued in favour of the Little Mark III, do you think they'll update the combo to include the Little Mark III? It does have one feature that I'd like: the balanced out that's switchable to post & pre EQ (the 121P is only post, but can be re-wired for pre).

That would be a good option. I don't think they've announced it yet, but I doubt they'll keep producing the older model just for the combo. I guess you'll have to start watching for steep discounts of the "old" combo.

Monte · #17 06-06-2009, 09:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by macmrkt

Note - I found the CMD to sound much better on a chair for DB and on the floor for BG. This was not subtle - very pronounced improvements. Also, many modern piezo pickups can go right into the CMD without an additional preamp.

Reflecting more... neither of these combos is completely neutral sounding. Both do sound very, very good though. The CMD has a lot more low end and volume which would make it the choice for most I suspect. The Spellbinder has more gadgets and might be preferred for studio use.

I've found this to be definitely true with DB. I always put it on a chair and can get a very transparent sound using the Dyn B and Pre A III.

Monte

walking_line · #18 06-07-2009, 11:54 PM

Apparently they are updating the combo head to match the LM III (Combohead II). I think I am going to return this one and order the new version as I'd like that full-featured balanced out on the back panel. Definitely something I'd like to have if only to make my life easier with the sound engineers. If I'm paying that kinda dough for this box, I figure I am getting all the features I want.

spkrwill · #19 11-15-2009, 02:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by walking_line

Ok, well, I went to the L & M to order one of these tonight (thought I was going to buy the Spellbinder) and walked out with the Markbass. They had it on the floor. It looks like someone had it at home and returned it (had some cat hair on the carpet), and I paid more than I'd like ($1275 CDN). But, they do have a price match guarantee (for any store in Canada), and worse comes to worse, if I don't like it, I can return it for full refund within 30 days.

I was at my girlfriend's tonight, so I could only try it on my electric, but this thing has cohones for miles for such a small box and sounds like you can dial in some good tones. I am looking forward to trying my upright out on it tomorrow.

Anyone know of cheaper prices for these in Canada? I'd still like to try the Spellbinder, but if I like this, then it looks like this is my rig...

Try Nanaimo location. Just before closing today, I traded my MarkBass 12 & tweet for a Warwick Jazzman! The reason I was looking here tonight was to find the depth of the port in a Baby Blue II, as the one I have has lost its plastic insert!! Will/spkrwill

sensei_steve · #20 09-16-2010, 10:13 AM

I have owned and played my Spellbinder Blue since Christmas 2009. I have played it at medium sized outside community parties and in small and medium size bars. It's an awesome amp, great sound, no problems, no volume issues at all! I play my BSX Allegro and Musicman Sterlings thru it. The Spellbinder Blue sounds natural with the Allegro and holds it own with my Sterlings punching thru loud guitarists and drummers. Also its weight of 27 pounds allows for a one trip load in and load out.

My reference rig is an Ampeg SVP-Pro, DBX 160a, and World 2.1 thru an Eden 410T. To my ear, this rig has THE classic sound. The Spellbinder Blue sounds remarkably like my reference rig, except the reference rig has a little deeper low end.

I hope this review helps anyone considering buying a Spellbinder Blue.

ALSO - The BSX Allegro is awesome. I've owned it several months, played it out several times and I love it. Dino was great to work with. No issues. The bass is well made, sounds great, plays great and its just a great fun bass!