Trying to remember why I use a mic

Monte · #1 01-10-2009, 03:48 PM

So I have been playing a cramped quintet pickup gig this weekend with some guys from Memphis. First time I've played with these guys altogether so I set up my Edirol on a table about 20' away to get an idea.

With the close quarters and loud ambiance I just went with my Schertler Dyn B straight into the Bose PAS PA, on the channel with a HP filter built into that eq.

Listening back to it today the playing is rough as expected (I love how we start this one with bass and the leader decided he didn't count it off fast enough so he is getting in my grill telling me to up the tempo).

The sound though....geez if I wasn't there I would swear this was a mic. It sounds every bit as good as the gigs I did with a mic lately. Hmm food for thought.

Listen if you want and tell me what you think of the sound.
http://www.mediafire.com/?xzjgdynnxdg

Monte

Monte · #2 01-10-2009, 03:50 PM

Oh, also the strings are the EP's except for the G which is a well worn Oliv. I really like the combo. Contrary to Marcus' experience, the G never really loosened up on my bass and felt weird. The Oliv is a great match.

scott reed · #3 01-10-2009, 08:40 PM

Monte, that's a much more usable mic-like sound than some mics I've heard.

Monte · #4 01-10-2009, 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scott reed

Monte, that's a much more usable mic-like sound than some mics I've heard.

Thanks, Scott! That was my thought exactly when I was listening back to it today. I was really stunned to hear that there was no real difference between this sound through the Bose and my H-Clamp and mics.

That being said, I still like having the H-Clamp and AKG C3000. When I'm not providing my own sound, the Dyn B tends to be fussy if not eq'd right. It has taken me years with it, but I really know how to get it to sound great...unfortunately I'm not so good at articulating it to sound guys so it is easier to just slap a mic on it.

I am thrilled to have found a preset on the Bose EQ that seems made for the Schertler so I don't need a preamp.

scott reed · #5 01-10-2009, 09:03 PM

Hey, in a past life I even used a Shure 57 next to the back of my bass through an Ampeg
B-12 Portaflex (cut down the ambient sound from the other instruments).
Those postage-stamp stages are difficult to work with.

bolo · #6 01-11-2009, 01:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Monte

Listen if you want and tell me what you think of the sound.

I think it sounds real, real nice chief.

I compared it to some of the mp3's you sent me via PM. They all sound great. The Schertler's sound is more solid, less transparent, but not in a starkly negative way. Just different. More up front. And to my ears the pizz attack and the bloom of the initial hit on each note conveys better with your miked tracks. Maybe the mics are doing a better job of capturing more the FB type effects in addition to the body. But they all make me smile.

Monte · #7 01-11-2009, 02:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bolo

I think it sounds real, real nice chief.

I compared it to some of the mp3's you sent me via PM. They all sound great. The Schertler's sound is more solid, less transparent, but not in a starkly negative way. Just different. More up front. And to my ears the pizz attack and the bloom of the initial hit on each note conveys better with your miked tracks. Maybe the mics are doing a better job of capturing more the FB type effects in addition to the body. But they all make me smile.

Thanks!

If I remember right, part of that may be attributed to where the Edirol was placed. A few times that I used it, the proximity to the bass led to getting a lot of acoustic sound. On this recording the Edirol had more space than I usually have, so it was going to be a lot of speaker sound comparitively.

bolo · #8 01-11-2009, 08:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Monte

If I remember right, part of that may be attributed to where the Edirol was placed. A few times that I used it, the proximity to the bass led to getting a lot of acoustic sound. On this recording the Edirol had more space than I usually have, so it was going to be a lot of speaker sound comparitively.

I was thinking the same thing after I posted.

Monte · #9 01-11-2009, 08:37 PM

Maybe it might be helpful for me to reiterate the things I have learned in making the Schertler Dyn B work for me.

First, you absolutely need a full range system. If you aren't committed to this, don't bother. I've gotten better sounds out of the Dyn B (with external EQ help) from a cheapie PA system than the best bass amps, including a Walter Woods and Acoustic Image.

Second, placement placement placement. A little time finding the perfect spot will make all the difference. I've futzed with mine over the years but keep coming back to a spot just south of the G foot of the bridge. On my old Juzek it was more in the middle.

Third, the right eq is the magic key. The regular old high mid low thing will not cut it. The Schertler preamp does a great job, but I find it is overkill in most situations because I only need eq not a preamp. Fortunately, the Bose has a preset that notches the frequency that is worst on the Schertler. Otherwise, I use my Schertler powered speaker, small mixer, and insert my Behringer parametric Eq.

Sounds like a lot, but it is really simple for me these days to show up right before the gig and get my sound without having to do anything but plug my bass into the Bose. Takes longer to take my bass out of the case than it does to dial in a good sound.

My revelation was that with my setup, there doesn't seem to be a point in dragging along a mic as it doesn't add anything really to the sound as far as I can tell, even as pick as I am.

balazs.horvath · #10 01-21-2009, 07:10 AM

Sounds nice! I think the key is the full range system. I got pretty similar results with a Realist and a Schertler Unico (without a preamp). Probably mine could even better with a Dyn-B (which is something between a mic and a pickup soundwise, as I found).

**Chris Fitzgerald** · #11 01-21-2009, 07:45 AM

Hi Monte - I've been dialing back a bit on the use of a mic for some gigs. Usually these gigs are the ones where I almost don't need an amp, but still need a little extra oomph to balance the mix. Oddly, where I like the mic blended in is in louder situations, but the longer I play, the more I find that the key is to be careful not to use too much mic...if the mic is even a little too hot, for me it's better not to use one at all.

Monte · #12 01-21-2009, 11:24 AM

You know Chris, it seems like I've always preferred all mic or all pickup...at least with the Schertler. Never had much luck blending.

I still love just slapping the old AKG in the H-clamp and giving it to the soundman on those kinda gigs, but when I provide the sound reinforcement, the Schertler does great on its own, even though I have another input I can use.