Use microphone for live or just pickup?

[Barcza]

This is a big question for me! When I play in a studio I only use large diagram condenser mic, I think the best is the old Neumann u67. In live I use pickup in 99.5% ( before BP-100, now Full Circle), I allways miss the attack and the air of the sound with piezzo, but I aware to go with mic in live, becouse sometime I play at difficult acoustic environment and some time I should work with sound guys who doesn't really know how should sound an acoustic jazz group, I think the mic will complicate the soundcheck and time is short. I talk with few of big names , John Patitucci told me he blend an AMT and the realistic with a Radial Bassbone to the amp, and go with tho house system with Neumann KM 185 too, when he play in a louder band he add more volume only with the pickup. Dave Holland told he play only with pickup to the amp, and he use some AKG mic to the house system, but never mic to the monitors. Scott Colley says he use Realistic to the amp, and several dynamic microphones (Re-20, D-112) to the house but the he "very rarely" use mic in the monitor. I saw Robert Hurst go only mic to the PA and monitors, and he use lucite wall beetwen the bass and the drums. Do You use mic and what's your method? (sorry for my english)

[Jake deVilliers]

Read this thread - it has the answers you're looking for.

Mic/Full Circle comparisons for live sound

[bolo]

Hello Barcza. Do you run the bass through a PA at most or all of your gigs? That may shape how people respond to your question somewhat.

I do not often use a PA (I told you I was a small-timer ). But I do blend a mic and a p/u through my amp.

[Barcza]

Hi Bolo. Most of the time I send the signal from the direct out of my amp to a PA. My main question is, better to blend with own amp or the mic just send to PA?

[bolo]

Well it varies. I think many people prefer the model of sending only the pickup signal to their amp on stage to serve as a monitor and help with intonation, and sending the mic only to the PA. That seems to match what you wrote about Dave Holland and Scott Colley.

I could be wrong, but I think the problem with sending your mic'ed signal into your amp is that you can't get as much volume out of the mic before it starts to feed back. I mean the high pitched electronic squealing kind of feedback. If the mic signal is only going to the PA, that problem is greatly diminished, and you get more of that natural mic'ed sound out in the house.

I think eliminating or limiting how much mic'd sound is sent back to you via the monitors follows that same reasoning. Feedback is the enemy or constraint.

[Barcza]

By my experience, the most trouble free key that use the mic only to the house system. But If I hear my bass microphoned too, that inspire me.

[Jason Sypher]

mic to house, low stage volume, very little monitor....bliss

[moles]

Wire yourself up a 1 ft reverse-polarity xlr cable if you don't have a phase switch on your amp or pre. Works in a pinch.

[bolo]

I think of two distinct kinds of feedback w/ amplified DB.

First, I think the phase reversal solution can sometimes help tame that low end rumbling type of feedback where the body of your bass starts resonating out of control. This can happen even with pickups, not just mics.

Second, I also battle with high-pitched squealing mic feedback, because I run a mic into my amp, and typically I stand in front of my amp. When the mic signal just goes to the mains, typically the mains are out in front of you facing the audience, not you. So the likelihood of a squealing feedback shriek are reduced. Generally speaking, mics in front of speaker = bad, mics behind speaker = good. So by running a mic into my amp and standing in front of it I put myself in an inherently bad situation. Understanding the polar pattern of my mic has helped. I am not sure phase reversal plays a helpful role with this second type of feedback, but I could be wrong.

And I think too much bass in the monitors can contribute to both kinds of feedback, but especially the first kind.

Don't know if that helps at all. But like Barcza said, I like the sound of a mic so much so that I am learning how to deal with running it through my amp and making the most of it. Some folks like larry and Vunz have this down awfully well. I am still learning, sometimes painfully so, so any corrections, clarifications or advice would be appreciated.

[Barcza]

I never heard abot this "phase reversal" think, and reverse-polarity xlr cables is available in every cable brand? Explain please. The second type of feedback is more familiar for me. But sometimes there's other problems with the mics, example capture the drums or other instruments across the bass, and in a difficult acoustic ambience the sound easily could go to untreatable and muddy.

[bolo]

Here's a thread that talks about the first kind of feedback I tried to describe.

Some amps and preamps have a switch that allows you to reverse the phase of your input signal. Here's one thread that goes into it a bit. And another.

As far as bleed from drums and other things goes, it is a concern like you said, but manageable in most of my gigging situations now. Wasn't always so. I have the highest success rate now with a hypercardioid dynamic mic in close to the bass. And by paying close attention to where I set up relative to my speaker, drums, ability to see the TV over the bar, et al.

[Barcza]

The hypercardioid dynamic mic sounds good to me, I see You use a Beyer M88, did you try some athers too and you went to the Beyer?

[bolo]

I picked the Beyer M 88 based primarily on larry's comments in this thread. Thanks again larry.

Before that, I used a K&K Golden Trinity mic, and then an AMT. They are both condensers.

I also know that Vunz uses a Neumann KM185 and reports excellent results. Hypercardioid condenser.

And the Heil PR40 is being used a few TBers who say they really dig it. Here's a review. They also reportedly have a slightly smaller version coming out soon. Here is a thread about it. The Heil is a dynamic mic.

Choices, choices ...