Using Realist and mic through GKMB

[RShew]

Hi,

I am a new user and must say I enjoy the banter going on in this site. I have a question in regards to my own gear. I currently use a GKMB150E amp along with a realist. I would like to add a microphone to the mix and am wondering how to do this. I like the ATM35. Do I need to get some sort of extra piece of gear (blender/preamp) to blend the signals together and THEN send it to the GK? I am big (as we all are) into less weight and cords so would it behoove me to purchase an amp that already has this capability (SWR Caliblonde or AI Contra with mic input)? I like the overall sound I am getting right now...I would just like to add more of the wood sound I get acoustically.

I appreciate any suggestions/comments.

RShew

[Kevinlee]

I would get a blender/mixer. If you already like your current sound with the GK. I have a ravenlabs blender that I'm real happy with. I use it to blend two different pu's as opposed to a pu & mic but it is set up to blend a mic and pu with seperate eq for each. If your not familiar with them you can read about it here
http://www.gollihur.com/kkbass/raven.html

[RShew]

I am definitly an ignoramous when it comes to this stuff. i like the ATM 35 as I tried it out with the GK alone and liked it but it wasn't loud enough and I thought it didn't have enough presence. Blending with my existing pickup should solve this. The ATM 35 comes two ways...with phantom power and without. Since the Ravens lab has phantom power am I OK going with out the external box? I know that the mic connection will have to change to fit the 1/4 inch input on the Ravens. Does phantom power still work through adapters etc? Bob (all hail) can you help?

RShew

[metron]

RShew: Phantom power should still work. Keep in mind that the Raven PMB has 9V phantom power. This is not strong enough for most mikes. Ive heard that a mod to the phantom power can be made to bring it up to a suitable 48V but Im not sure. If you are really interested in this unit I highly recommend you call Steve Rabe and ask him about the specifics. He is awesome to deal with and will take the time to answer all your questions.

[Pacman]

Originally Posted by metron

RShew: Phantom power should still work. Keep in mind that the Raven PMB has 9V phantom power. This is not strong enough for most mikes. Ive heard that a mod to the phantom power can be made to bring it up to a suitable 48V but Im not sure.

Most condensers will function from 9 to 52 volts phantom power. You'll just need to use an adapter that will allow you to use the 1/4" input, or make a custom cable.

[mje]

Originally Posted by Pacman

Most condensers will function from 9 to 52 volts phantom power. You'll just need to use an adapter that will allow you to use the 1/4" input, or make a custom cable.

*Electret* condensors can operate as low as 9VDC, although they'll lose some headroom. With electrets the power is only needed for the preamp built into the microphone. WIth a true condensor mike you need higher voltage- some work as low as 22-30 volts, and 48 is better.

[Pacman]

Turns out the specs on the ARM35 state it needs a minimum of 11 volts, although the power supply it comes with runs off a 9V.

There aren't many true condenser mics around that you'd attach to a double bass, are there?

[junglebike]

Or you could use the K&K Golden trinity mic upgrade. You can get them from lemurmusic.com or upright Bob (urbbob.com). It's got a mic designed for upright bass, and a preamp/blender that will combine the signal with your pickup.

I've got one I'm selling if you're interested... PM me ($165 shipped, as new)

[metron]

It will still work with 9V phantom power but like mje said you will lose headroom.

Originally Posted by Pacman

Most condensers will function from 9 to 52 volts phantom power. You'll just need to use an adapter that will allow you to use the 1/4" input, or make a custom cable.

[B String]

I use my RavenLabs blender with my GK,
but I bypass the preamp of GK, and go
straight into the effects return input. This
makes the blender the preamp going straight
to the power supply. Sounds SO much better.
I can either play upright and electric, or I can
blend a pickup and mic, or pickup and pickup.
Small, versatile, and sounds good. uumm boy!

[RShew]

Originally Posted by B String

I use my RavenLabs blender with my GK,
but I bypass the preamp of GK, and go
straight into the effects return input. This
makes the blender the preamp going straight
to the power supply. Sounds SO much better.
I can either play upright and electric, or I can
blend a pickup and mic, or pickup and pickup.
Small, versatile, and sounds good. uumm boy!

Hey B string sounds like I am going for what you have. Do you have enough power using a mic? The other thing is for PacMan etc. That ATM mic come is two different packages. 1 with the little phantom power unit and one without. My plan is not create a versatile system where I can use the Ravens' Lab, ATM mic and Realist with almost any amp (not just the GK). I spen some time on the road and it wold be really cool to only bring the ravens lab etc. and just use whatever amp they have available and bypass their EQ. Has anyone tried the ravens lab straight to the sound board with no amp onstage? Using monitors? My only reservation is the fact that the ATM that comes without the phantom power box might not be able to recieve phantom power from the Ravens if I use an adapter. You guys have been tons of help. Keep it coming!

RShew

[B String]

I'm blending a realist and an underwood pickup.
The realist gives me the thud and boom (or air)
of a mic, while the underwood give me the highs
and focus. I'm about to switch to a wilson pickup
instead of the underwood. Too many problems
with mics on live gigs. A little of the realist is fine.
I also changed the speaker in my combo to a more
full range speaker. More highs and smoother sound.
Also... I've used the ravenlabs blender alone to give
a mixed signal in the studio, and live to soundman.
The monitors were my speakers.

[Phil Smith]

I use the ATM35 with the power supply. I think that setup is the most versatile. I use a Clarus and when I want to blend the mic with the pickup I use the K&K Dual Channel Pre-Amp. For some gigs and rehearsals I've been using a Coda and I run the mic through the mic channel and the pickup up through the pick up channel.

There are problems with mics on loud gigs especially with a big band. The sound of the band when it gets loud causes the top of the bass to resonate resulting in wicked feedback.

[Ed Fuqua]

I have never been happy with the sound when I put the mic and pick up through the same amp. maybe if I went stereo and had two cabinets?

But when I use my pick up through the amp and put the mic through whatever house PA system there is (even the crappy Peavey that the singer brought) it is just wonderful. You get a lot of wood sound out in the house and you can keep your amp at volume levels that you get a good sound through your pick up. And this is with a big band and a slamming drummer. Trio gigs I've just used the mic through the house system and get coverage and the sound I want.

[T-Bal]

R - Welcome to the boards. I'm up here in the D.C. area - you contacted me a while back, through our mutual aquaintance who's now in the Big Easy. Anyway, I've learned a ton here, on many bass related topics. I'm sure you'll find it a great resource. Who are you touring/gigging with?

[RShew]

Originally Posted by T-Bal

R - Welcome to the boards. I'm up here in the D.C. area - you contacted me a while back, through our mutual aquaintance who's now in the Big Easy. Anyway, I've learned a ton here, on many bass related topics. I'm sure you'll find it a great resource. Who are you touring/gigging with?

Hey T- Thanks for the greeting. The Big Unit seems to be doing real well down in the Big Easy. I am learning a ton (and finding I don't have enought $) from these discussions. I have recently moved to LA so I am no longer in your neck of the woods. Playing in the area with numerous groups/leaders. All as a sideman (lots of vocalists). I am trying to get my live sound to my liking. I want to use a mic as I have had much success at low volumes wiht it but when we play loud it gets lost. What is your set-up? Any tips? Right now I am using a Realist through a GK combo and this sounds good at the quartet/quintet level. After that I start to to dislike the sound amplified. Thanks for the shout.

RShew

[Andrew Tanner]

I finally got the Golden Trinity Upgrade to use with my Underwood after deciding to ditch my Realist, but I'm having real problems with the mic: feedback and muddiness, etc. I've got a notch filter onto it, but as the pre-amp is configured so I can't alter the signal from the mic only, I end up colouring the combined output from the pre-amp, which is a bit of a problem. I'm now contemplating using the Golden Trinity Blender to blend the signals from the Underwood with the Realist instead of the mic, although I'll need a stereo "Y" lead to do this. I think the Realist pretty closely approximates a good miked-up sound, but I've found it lacks top-end clarity (as I've noted in another thread).

Hey, B String - what blender did you use when you combined your Realist with your Underwood? Do you guys think the Golden Trinity Blender should be fine? I'm going to try it out tomorrow anyway (if I've got time).

[T-Bal]

Originally Posted by Andrew Tanner

I finally got the Golden Trinity Upgrade to use with my Underwood after deciding to ditch my Realist, but I'm having real problems with the mic: feedback and muddiness, etc. I've got a notch filter onto it, but as the pre-amp is configured so I can't alter the signal from the mic only, I end up colouring the combined output from the pre-amp, which is a bit of a problem. I'm now contemplating using the Golden Trinity Blender to blend the signals from the Underwood with the Realist instead of the mic, although I'll need a stereo "Y" lead to do this. I think the Realist pretty closely approximates a good miked-up sound, but I've found it lacks top-end clarity

Is your mic over the f-hole? This could account for your muddiness and feedback. It has been mentioned in other threads that this placement will result in boominess. Try different locations, including between the f-hole and the bridge, or between the bridge feet. Do a search, I think there are some posts with pics of how others have done it. I have also found that I have much less vulnerability to feedback with my Raven PMB, which also has way more headroom, and separate effects loops for mic and pickup. Furthermore, my AI Coda (which does have its limitations) is less prone to feedback because of its downfiring configuration.
Could you take two mono leads from the preamp, run the mic feed through the notch, then join them with the "Y"?
Another thought: K&K makes a cheaper 2-channel preamp you could use to mix the 2 pickups, although I prefer to use inputs with 10 Mohm impedance.
Good luck!

[T-Bal]

Originally Posted by RShew

I am trying to get my live sound to my liking. I want to use a mic as I have had much success at low volumes wiht it but when we play loud it gets lost. What is your set-up? Any tips? Right now I am using a Realist through a GK combo and this sounds good at the quartet/quintet level. After that I start to to dislike the sound amplified. Thanks for the shout.

RShew

I have been reading these boards for a year and a half, and I'm still learning. At this point I am of the opinion that there is no one simple solution, and in order to eventually get the sound I want I will have to consider various options for strings, pickups, preamps, heads/cabinets and combos. More later.

[Bob Gollihur]

Originally Posted by Andrew Tanner

I finally got the Golden Trinity Upgrade to use with my Underwood after deciding to ditch my Realist, but I'm having real problems with the mic: feedback and muddiness, etc. I've got a notch filter onto it, but as the pre-amp is configured so I can't alter the signal from the mic only...

I don't understand-- there are separate EQ controls for each channel on the inside of the preamp. Why can't you alter the signal from the mic?