Vintage Amps...?

[Fletcher Lanning]

This seems to be slightly more prevalant in the BG community than it is over here on the Dark Side but I post here more, so here is where I ask (and golly I just like you guys better :P ).

I understand the desire to have an older instrument 100%. Between properly aged and dried wood and the effect of constant resonation over the years there is no doubt that, all other things being completely equal, I would choose an aged instrument over one that is brand new. What I don't understand as much is the desire I've seen for vintage amps. Other than the cab itself there isn't anything that would benefit from aging or resonation is there (and I'm skeptical that the cab is going to change the tone much as it ages)? The majority of it's guts are completely reproducable using modern parts of the exact same composition...so whats the big deal?

[AMJBASS]

Generally Double Bassists aren't going for vintage amps as most of the time we're going for the most natural sound that we can get. Not to say that all older amplifiers aren't capable of this, but a LOT of the modern amps on the market are hi-fi and capable of far greater clarity and EQ-ability. Another thing, I would MUCH rather carry around my 5 lbs Clarus and an 18 lbs cabinet rather than a 100 lbs B15N

[Ric Vice]

Originally Posted by Flanning

This seems to be slightly more prevalant in the BG community than it is over here on the Dark Side but I post here more, so here is where I ask (and golly I just like you guys better :P ).

I understand the desire to have an older instrument 100%. Between properly aged and dried wood and the effect of constant resonation over the years there is no doubt that, all other things being completely equal, I would choose an aged instrument over one that is brand new. What I don't understand as much is the desire I've seen for vintage amps. Other than the cab itself there isn't anything that would benefit from aging or resonation is there (and I'm skeptical that the cab is going to change the tone much as it ages)? The majority of it's guts are completely reproducable using modern parts of the exact same composition...so whats the big deal?

Fanning
I still have a Ampeg B-15N sitting in the garage that I had rebuilt last summer. It was once the best amplifier for Double Bass, but that just isn't the case anymore. It's more a case of what those older amps don't have than what they had. Digital switching power supplies and neodymium speakers gave us and smaller lighter amp while Lo Cut filters, Phase switches, 1 meg inputs, and phantom power gave better sounding piezos and mic blending. So essentially, you are correct. The only thing that sounds different about the B-15 might be that double reflex baffling system in the cabinet and there are other cabinet designs that sound just as good IMHO.

Ric

[stiles72]

I have a vintage '63 B-15 Portaflex that I just restored - and though it is somewhat primitive from todays standards, it has a tone and mojo that modern amps just don't have. I could give you a list of cliche termns to describe it - but the fact that it is still a viable amp for both recording and live use today says it all.

[Wild Rice Chris]

As far as guitar goes, my attraction to vintage amps has to do primarily with tone and serviceability. To get comparable tone/response/sound and ease of repair as my vintage amps, I would need to spend several thousand dollars and go modern boutique. The truth of the matter is, I've had several high-end, well-regarded boutique amplifiers that just don't sound as good as my old amps. Most of them have new speakers and a few other mods, but the basic voice of the amps work better for what I want to hear.

Now, bass...that's a different story. I do love my '66 B-15-N, and double bass sounds surprisingly great through the Bassman 135, but I'm not a fan of lugging the heavy stuff around when I can get the job done with smaller/lighter/more versatile modern amps.

[Bob Gollihur]

While much guitar and bass guitar play is all about tonal coloration, URB is typically all about NO coloration. The weight differential and low power of vintage amps seals the deal.

[fdeck]

I think the point of "vintage" gear for guitar is that there are time periods associated with the development of amplified guitar tone, and those tones are recorded for posterity. The same is true, though probably to a lesser extent, for the electric bass. It seems meaningful to explore the history of amplified guitar and bass tone as one explores the history of contemporary music, and to reproduce classic tones as integral to historical styles.

In contrast, DB amplification is a much more recent development than the instrument itself -- even if one only considers the jazz era. Amplification has largely been treated as a necessary evil. Aside from wanting to reproduce the tone of the instrument, amplification remains a battle against room acoustics, speaker physics, and feedback. And there is little to no record of the development of DB amplification, because to this day, most recording is done with a microphone if possible.

[Ric Vice]

Originally Posted by stiles72

I have a vintage '63 B-15 Portaflex that I just restored - and though it is somewhat primitive from todays standards, it has a tone and mojo that modern amps just don't have. I could give you a list of cliche termns to describe it - but the fact that it is still a viable amp for both recording and live use today says it all.

Stiles,
Since I spent some years playing through a B-15N as my primary amplifier I am fond of the tone quality is has, tubes do sound great. After searching for a long time, I decided to plunk down the $600.00 dollars it cost for a Walter Woods in 1980 and I've never looked back. The MI-100-8 amplifier I got from Walter sounded every bit as good as the B-15 and only weighed 7 1/2 pounds. I did use a pair of B-15 cabinets with the Woods and they got the sound I wanted. I think that's because the sound of that cabinet is unique. Portaflex cabs have a tone quality all their own.
My two cents is, that in the studio, it's still a viable choice. Luging around a 80 lb amplifier dosen't make sense, personally, to me anymore, with the choices we have now. Thats a individual choice we'll all have to make for ourselves. Unfortunately, the "botique" amps are pretty expensive, but so were Ampeg's at the time they were built. I had to buy a used one. Congratulations on rebuilding your B-15 I just had mine put back together last summer.


Ric