Vocal Mic

flip18436572 · #1 11-16-2009, 04:03 PM

What do you use for a vocal microphone? I am looking at the Beta 58A instead of the standard SM58.

flip18436572 · #2 11-19-2009, 08:11 PM

Do none of you sing? I was just curious on what you use in a live show situation. We tried using a condensor mic for everyone, but that didn't work and I am using a Peavey copy of the SM58, but it needs replaced.

David1234 · #3 11-19-2009, 08:15 PM

EV Cardinal. It's just brilliant.

Condensors aren't for everyone, but a pair of these is great for my duo. And they look cooler than any other stage mic (IMO).

Jazzdogg · #4 11-19-2009, 08:28 PM

I don't sing, but I run sound for my band; I bought an Audix OM-7 for our lead vocalist a few years ago, and everyone in the band thinks it's an improvement over the Shure SM58 he used to use.

longfinger · #5 11-19-2009, 10:04 PM

ATM41HE

Tried it in the store with a SM58 and liked it better. Some vocalists I've played it said the same thing.

swingingoodtime · #6 11-19-2009, 10:10 PM

Hi,

I sing; in fact, my voice is my principal instrument (I'm learning the DB to fulfil a long-time dream).

Your choice of mic will very much depend on your voice, I'm afraid. As with basses, there's no substitute for going to a well-stocked music store & A-B'ing some side by side. Some flatter well for some people whilst sounding terrible for others (male vs female voices is the obvious case, but differences in tone, timbre & range between voices within the same gender will still apply).

To give you an idea of what I use, though; I'm a baritone in range & a jazz vocalist. Being a vocalist, tone & refinement is paramount for me in a mic. I can cover from about a G2 to G4 (middle G) and currently use a Heil PR35. Really, really, really nice dynamic that's quite unlike most; plenty of midrange & top end and not muddy at all. Massive diaphragm, & the closest I've heard a dynamic get to a condenser. Speaking of which, have a listen to my tracks on my website: www.swingingoodtime.com/music.html These were recorded using a Shure Beta 87a. The beta 58a (dynamic) is pretty good, but I find it a bit harsh compared to the Heil or the 87A for my taste.

Alternatively, ribbons can be quite nice; very smooth & forgiving with a lot of voices. One of the cheaper Chinese types could be a go-er due to affordability and that the ribbon appears to be more robust than usual; (ironically, use of cheaper (thicker) materials for the ribbon appears to be a slight advantage, albeit at some expense of hi-end response). I used one of these for a while & once accidentally put 48V+ across it for about 10 secs with no problems. I also re-housed mine in a Shure 55SH 'birdcage' replica housing which sounded reasonably good (I also swapped out the std transformer for a Lundahl), but the housing introduced some resonances that caused occasional feedback problems in a live setting, so I've retired that for now until I can fix the problem.

You can hear the different mics in action on my videos page (http://www.swingingoodtime.com/videos.html . Set 1 is the Beta 87a, Sets 2, 3, 4 & 6 are the ribbon and Tracks 7 & 8 are the Heil. 6 & 8 are particularly good for hearing the mics, as I was able to multitrack rather than just record a stereo ambient track.

I also tested found the EV N/D767a (dyn) to be pretty good and surprisingly affordable, as is the Sennheiser e935 (dyn); not my first picks, but adequate. The Sennheiser e945 (dyn) & e865 (condenser) are both really, really nice but up there in price. I could have gone either of the first two but was fortunate to pick up the Heil second hand instead. The e845 (dyn) i sok, but not particularly special. Haven't tried the new e965 (cond).

I didn't like the AKG D5 as it was too bright, a bit harsh & not very warm sounding for my voice; I like a sound which has a creamy, smooth low-end but with sufficient mids to avoid sounding muddy & thick.

SM58 (dyn); yuck. Great rock mic, but yuk; muddy as. Re comments: "[xxxxx] sounded better than an SM58"; heck, they're designed for withstanding physical & vocal (screaming) abuse on rock tours, not for refined audio-reflection. So in a jazz context a great number of mics will probably sound better (although I heard a female voice folk/bluegrass recording once that sounded good; the muddiness gave her voice lower end presence & took the shrillness off the top).

Other mics:
Rode M1 (dyn); better than the SM58, but still not very refined (it's touted for rock, not jazz!). Rode S1 (cond); to much high-end, no creamy bottom end. Haven't tried the S2 or M2 (both cond). Shure 87C (cond, but NOT a Beta model, btw); not bad, but the 87A had the edge for me; a little more refined, although not much in it. the 87C seemed to have a little more bass bloom, which sounded like it would be good for a female voice (balance out shrillness). Haven't tried a Neumann, but then I'd never take something that expensive to a gig.

Overall, like basses, if you do a lot of singing; spend some bucks on a decent mic. You won't regret it and nor will your audience as, providing you're trying to sing well, a good sound will give you confidence to sing even better.

To re-iterate; these opinions apply for my voice, to my ears, and supported through positive feedback of listeners. At the end of the day, there's no such thing as a mic that can't be used somewhere; the SM58/female vocal example cited above is a perfect example.

Hope that helps!

Jake deVilliers · #7 11-19-2009, 10:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flip18436572

Do none of you sing? I was just curious on what you use in a live show situation. We tried using a condensor mic for everyone, but that didn't work and I am using a Peavey copy of the SM58, but it needs replaced.

Flip, I'm in a bluegrass band that writes all its own songs and I'm singing in every one of them.

Usually the venue/festival/promoter provides sound man and gear. The vocal mic ranges from stinky nicotine-baked SM58s to AT4033s.

When we supply our own we'll use 2 Apex 435s or 2 cardioid pattern hand held condensers. We just got them and have only used them on one gig.

It was beach front in Squamish where the LD condensers would have been all wind noise all the time. They were more open than 58s with less proximity effect and more controllable in terms of ambient noise pickup. I could dig them out and get their names if you want that.

phatbass · #8 11-19-2009, 11:13 PM

For a first decent mic, I recommend a 58 or Beta 58. They're a "standard"; a point of reference, if you like. A bit like a Fender Precision, it'll get the job done competently and to a professional standard in any situation.

Once you've used it for a while you'll start working out what qualities you want more or less of in a vocal mic and start looking. Or, like me, you might just decide you like the Shure...

Plus they're reliable as a rock, and even if you end up with a different vocal mic, you'll ALWAYS find a use for it if you keep it.

flip18436572 · #9 11-20-2009, 06:27 AM

I guess I should have mentioned that I don't want a condensor microphone, because we run our own sound from the stage as we are a small 4 piece americana/bluegrass/folk group. We tried going condensor, but we didn't get the sound we wanted out front after a couple of shows and many different practices at different locations, so we decided to go to personal microphones and either pickups or microphones on the instruments. I used a Beta 58, but it failed and went to my backup Peavey that I liked better than a Shure SM58 for my voice. I have tried a few different EV and one of those is listed above, and I didn't like the EV. I have only used Sennheiser in a recording situation, and they were both condensor microphones.

I think I have access to a Sennheiser that I can borrow for a show and I will see what I think about it.

Thanks for the responses

Jake deVilliers · #10 11-20-2009, 09:29 AM

Hey Flip, if you want a great dynamic check out the Beyer Dynamics - very smooth, even response and road worthy too.

amroach · #11 11-20-2009, 09:40 AM

Me and all my band mates use Beta 58A mics there really good mics, Although we played a gig a while back and used the venues Beta 87A and our lead singer fell in love with it and and bought one. The rest of us are happy with our Beta 58A, i don't see the need to spend that much for backing vocals.

akmusicfreak · #12 11-28-2009, 04:36 PM

As a soundguy I just go with K.I.S.S. (Keep it simple stupid.) method and use an SM58.
It is one of the most widely used vocal mics for live music or speech (except the president, he actually uses 2 SM57s in a stereo clip, one is a backup).
9 out of 10 of the traveling techs for the large venue or stadium shows we have in Anchorage ask us to supply them with the SM58s, and occasionally the Beta 58.

SM58s are damn tough and built like a tank.
Check out link below for your amusement.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=33QPLbQi9FI

and than watch this one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lz1_l_HJlPA

There is my 2 cents, and we know what 2 cents can buy you now a days.

deliciouspesto · #13 11-28-2009, 06:56 PM

what is your price range... We talking sm58 or kms-105?

flip18436572 · #14 11-29-2009, 07:58 AM

I went with the BETA 58A. For my voice and style it sounds like what I want. I have run sound or been in rock bands for about 30 years and have used SM58 for vocals 99% of the time, except when I bought the Peavey which was similar in sound.

I used it on two shows on Friday night and really liked the sound.

T-Bird · #15 11-29-2009, 08:14 AM

Hi.

Hello from the other side...

.

As stated numerous times, Shure SM58 is THE standard when it comes down to vocal amplification.

It's nowhere near the top sound- or performance-wise, but it's still used more than any other mic. Almost any sound engineer (and I'm using the term as loosely as it should here

) can coax decent vocals with one. Try that same with any "better" mic and the result ranges from decent to horrible.

Another good choice could be Sennheiser MD421 if You can stand the looks. A white one is preferable, they tend to be "softer" somehow.

One other mic I urge You to try out if given the chance (if You still can find one that is) is AKG D12.
NOT the green, egg shaped ugly D112, but the real deal. Great for vocals as well as miking a bass cab IMLE.

Oh, almost forgot, I use SM58 usually

Regards
Sam

SteveFreides · #16 11-29-2009, 11:40 AM

Anyone enlighten me as to the difference between Shure's SM57 and SM58?

Thanks in advance.

-S-

Lumpy · #17 11-29-2009, 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteveFreides

Anyone enlighten me as to the difference between Shure's SM57 and SM58?

Both use the same Unidyne cartridge/element that Shure has used in their mic's for decades. The difference in the shape of the "business end" (ball vs cylinder shape windscreen) allows the 58 to have more "proximity effect" than the 57.

Get very close to a 58 and the bass response increases quite a bit. Get very close to a 57 and the increase is still there but not quite as dramatic.

So because of those differences, 58s have tended to become categorized as vox mics where 57s have tended to become categorized as instrumental mics. Still thousands of recordings have been made with either one of them in the "wrong" mode, ie record an instrument/amp with a 58 or a vox with a 57.

Either one works reasonably well as a hammer if necessary.

Craig 'Lumpy' Lemke

www.LumpyMusic.com

phatbass · #18 11-29-2009, 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteveFreides

Anyone enlighten me as to the difference between Shure's SM57 and SM58?

Thanks in advance.

-S-

The 58 has a slight peak around, IIRC, 8k. The 57 is a bit smoother, flatter response (I know, I know - subjective terminology).

flip18436572 · #19 11-29-2009, 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by T-Bird

One other mic I urge You to try out if given the chance (if You still can find one that is) is AKG D12.
NOT the green, egg shaped ugly D112, but the real deal. Great for vocals as well as miking a bass cab IMLE.

Oh, almost forgot, I use SM58 usually

Regards
Sam

Sorry, I tried the D12 in multiple occasions and didn't like it. It may be the way of the mix, but it just didn't sound right.

stingray69 · #20 11-29-2009, 12:58 PM

I recently bought the AKG D5, although I walked into the store set & determined to purchase a BETA 58. I had the salesman at a local GC hook up a BETA 57 & 58 side-by-side. He talked me into letting him grab a couple of mics of similar quality in & around the BETA58 price. Even a couple mics 2-3 times as much. I A/B'ed each without looking at which one he was handing me. I went with what sounded best to my ears - not the price tag or anything else affecting my decision. The D5 was the clear winner IMO. It has a sweetness much like a nice condenser mic. Also has a slight, mild rise in the treble frequencies - a smooth sheen whereas I found the SM57 & 58 to sound a little bit grainy in the treble range. This is not knocking the Shure mics - they are what they are, tried & true classics that have earned their reputation as a solid performing stage mic. But I obviously preferred the AKG D5 quite a bit more. Just as with basses & amps, I highly suggest doing a side-by-side comparison in a store to hear the differences & see what makes your voice sound its best.