Who's using mics for live performance?

MikeBarber · #1 01-26-2005, 12:47 PM

I'm leaning towards using a mic rather than a puckup on my DB. Idealy, I would get the ATM35... but that is not within my budget.

I am looking for a decent mic that is within the $100 (USD) range. But I don't know what to go for exactly. I've read recommendations as far as recording goes, but I am looking more for live applications.

Such mics I have looked at include the MXL 990, the Nady CM90. But I am really just clueless. Since I don't have the option to try them out first in a live atmoshpere (with a band and room noise, etc) to see what they are like, I am reliant on the experience of my peers.

Thus, I am asking "who's using mics for live performance? what do you use? what should I look for? what should I avoid?"

Chris Fitzgerlad mentioned somewhere that the large diaphram condensers (like the MXL 990) are more for recording and that they feedback easily in a live situation (is that a fair paraphrasing Chris?). So would a pencil condenser (like the Nady CM90) be more of what I am looking for?

Ah, so many questions...

Monte · #2 01-26-2005, 01:13 PM

I disagree with Chris on the large diaphragm mics feeding back too easily in live situations. Several people do it; mostly depends on which mic.

My .02 is that you won't find a mic in your price range that will be worth using live. I've used an SM57 in a pinch once, but it leaves a lot to be desired. If you go up to $200, your options will be better.

I use (and so does Brent Nussey who is around here) the AKG C3000. It is no longer made (the C3000b is different) but can be found on Ebay for ~ $200. I use it with the hypercardiod pattern.

Another great mic for live use is the AKG D112, a mic that looks like a big egg. The pattern isn't as tight is the C3000, but it can handle extremely loud situations without feeding back.

Monte

MikeBarber · #3 01-26-2005, 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Monte

I disagree with Chris on the large diaphragm mics feeding back too easily in live situations. Several people do it; mostly depends on which mic.

What is the variable from mic to mic? Sensitivity? SPL? Can it be quantified in a spec?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Monte

My .02 is that you won't find a mic in your price range that will be worth using live. I've used an SM57 in a pinch once, but it leaves a lot to be desired. If you go up to $200, your options will be better.

That's a little depressing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Monte

Another great mic for live use is the AKG D112, a mic that looks like a big egg. The pattern isn't as tight is the C3000, but it can handle extremely loud situations without feeding back.

AKG D112... looking that up on MusiciansFriend.com, they have it listed as a kick drum mic?!

Monte · #4 01-26-2005, 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeBarber

AKG D112... looking that up on MusiciansFriend.com, they have it listed as a kick drum mic?!

Yep, that is what it mostly is used for.

Also used a lot on bass though, because it can handle high SPL's and low bass frequencies.

Monte

MikeBarber · #5 01-26-2005, 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Monte

Also used a lot on bass though, because it can handle high SPL's and low bass frequencies.

Ah, ok... so what I want to consider is a mic with a high SPL rating (what would constitute a "high" SPL rating though?) and a low frequency response, would that be correct?

Monte · #6 01-26-2005, 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeBarber

Ah, ok... so what I want to consider is a mic with a high SPL rating (what would constitute a "high" SPL rating though?) and a low frequency response, would that be correct?

IMHO, specs are worthless, at least for me. The best thing is to try them. Another good thing is to find what others use. Christian McBride used the EV Re20. There are 3 of us here who use the AKG C3000 or its updated version the C4000b. There are a lot of opinions on this board if you doa search on what people use.

Just don't believe marketing people. Very rarely will you find a mic specified for double bass. I only use specs to make sure the mic can handle low end well enough. Someone who knew more about the physics of sound and mics could probably give you a more definite answer.

Monte

**Adrian Cho** · #7 01-27-2005, 06:36 PM

While you can use a studio mic for live performance, I believe that purpose-made bass mics do a heck of a lot better. I used an AKG C4000B and also a AT 4047/SV for live performance for a while. The sound was great but definitely had limits before feedback and bleed were problematic. The AMT I am using now allows me to get a heck of a lot more volume.

**Chris Fitzgerald** · #8 01-27-2005, 07:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeBarber

Chris Fitzgerlad mentioned somewhere that the large diaphram condensers (like the MXL 990) are more for recording and that they feedback easily in a live situation (is that a fair paraphrasing Chris?).

Yes and no. Yes, because most LD condensers have polar patterns designed to capture a wider range of sound than what live situations usually allow. If you were to use an LD condenser for live performance, you'd be best off with one that can be set for "Hyper" or "Super" cardiod pattern - this design is built for off-axis rejection, meaning that it offers a tighter pickup pattern. Monte likes them and I believe him, but personally I wouldn't mess with it. I've seen McBride play live twice. Once, when there was a good house system that he could run his mic through, I actually heard him play as well. The other time, there wasn't, so I only saw him whenever the drums were playing. He looked great, but...

The AKG is a kick drum mic. It's also a dynamic mic, so that it requires no phantom power to run it. I've seen guys mount these right on the bridges of their basses with mixed results. It's not as clear as any of the other mics mentioned here, but it can be workable for some. I'd have to agree with DORIAN GRAY that the AMT offers more volume than any other mic I've tried live because it is designed for the bass, has a very tight polar pattern, and is EQ'ed specifically to exclude ride cymbal frequencies (it cuts off dead at 2Kh, and if I'm not mistaken, it starts rolling off even before that). Of course, it's also about $600.

Hope this helps.

Vunz · #9 01-28-2005, 03:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adrian Cho

While you can use a studio mic for live performance, I believe that purpose-made bass mics do a heck of a lot better. I used an AKG C4000B and also a AT 4047/SV for live performance for a while. The sound was great but definitely had limits before feedback and bleed were problematic. The AMT I am using now allows me to get a heck of a lot more volume.

Well, I'm afraid if have to disagree here. I believe it is all about how you use a mic live - and what the rest of your gear consists of. Purpuse-made bass mics are a bit more convenient when it comes to user-friendliness (is that a word?), but, in the end, (and in my experience, of course, YMMV, etc.) the results obtained by a good-quality mic, used in the right manner and with the right gear, are (sometimes far) superior to many of those bass-specific devices.

Vincent

Monte · #10 01-28-2005, 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vunz

Well, I'm afraid if have to disagree here. I believe it is all about how you use a mic live - and what the rest of your gear consists of. Purpuse-made bass mics are a bit more convenient when it comes to user-friendliness (is that a word?), but, in the end, (and in my experience, of course, YMMV, etc.) the results obtained by a good-quality mic, used in the right manner and with the right gear, are (sometimes far) superior to many of those bass-specific devices.

Vincent

Ditto.

If used with the right stuff, I can get a stupid amount of volume before feedback with my AKG C3000. Granted, I haven't tried an AMT in something like 2-3 years, and they probably have gotten better.

Monte

Bijoux · #11 01-28-2005, 04:06 PM

I've been using mic only for about a year now. For live performances I think the Golden Trinity is pretty good for the price. The guys in the band play a bit different when I use a mic only, and pay more attention to dynamics, to the point that even if it's goign to be a loud gig, I still prefer the mic only set up, becasue that helps keep the band more focused.

**Adrian Cho** · #12 01-28-2005, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Monte

Ditto.

If used with the right stuff, I can get a stupid amount of volume before feedback with my AKG C3000. Granted, I haven't tried an AMT in something like 2-3 years, and they probably have gotten better.

Monte

There are so many variables that it is very hard to make relative judgements. For example, my current bass is a lot louder than my previous bass and consequently the signal/noise (where noise is anything but the sound of the bass) input to the mic is a lot higher. It depends a lot also on the room, the proximity of other instruments, etc. As with any kind of mic, you tradeoff one thing for another.