Wizzy 10 + Wizzy 12 = ????

[tornadobass]

I have a Wizzy 12 and am thinking about getting a Wizzy 10 as well for smaller gigs, jams, etc.

Do these two cabs work together or would one dominate?

I'd be using them with a Clarus head, so the impedance wouldn't be a problem.

[bribass]

Originally Posted by tornadobass

I have a Wizzy 12 and am thinking about getting a Wizzy 10 as well for smaller gigs, jams, etc.

Do these two cabs work together or would one dominate?

I'd be using them with a Clarus head, so the impedance wouldn't be a problem.

I'm wondering the same thing myself.

I pulled the trigger on one to use separately and to stack on top an M-line 12 w/ my Focus.

I'll let you know. If it works nicely I'll probably put up for sale one of my two M-line 12's and maybe even my '04 Polytone.

BG

[61pollmann]

If you are going to stack two cabs together, it's always best to use two matching ones(I stack two Bergie 112s). When you have two different cabs, there are issues due to differing sensitivities, impedances, and sometimes polarity. If you drive them with a regular(mono) amp, you have no way of adjusting and balancing them. On the other hand, they may just work well together. You won't know until you try the combination. You do have to be careful about the resultant impedance. If it's too low, your amp may have serious problems. Two 8 ohm cabs in parallel result in 4 ohms, but if one is 8 ohms and the other is 4 ohms, the result is too low for many amps. Remember that an impedance rating(ohms) is only an average, and at certain frequencies it may be considerably lower. If your amp is rated to handle 2 ohm loads, you are usually OK, unless you have two 4 ohm cabs which dip below.

[robgrow]

Originally Posted by 61pollmann

If you are going to stack two cabs together, it's always best to use two matching ones(I stack two Bergie 112s). When you have two different cabs, there are issues due to differing sensitivities, impedances, and sometimes polarity. If you drive them with a regular(mono) amp, you have no way of adjusting and balancing them. On the other hand, they may just work well together. You won't know until you try the combination. You do have to be careful about the resultant impedance. If it's too low, your amp may have serious problems. Two 8 ohm cabs in parallel result in 4 ohms, but if one is 8 ohms and the other is 4 ohms, the result is too low for many amps. Remember that an impedance rating(ohms) is only an average, and at certain frequencies it may be considerably lower. If your amp is rated to handle 2 ohm loads, you are usually OK, unless you have two 4 ohm cabs which dip below.

While these could be some good points in general, this thread is about using two specific cabinets from the same manufacturer (Euphonic Audio) together. The difference in sensitivity ratings for the Wizzy 112 and 110 is only 1 dB, so that's really not an issue. Same with polarity (phase). A speaker's impedance can be no lower than its DC resistance (and at any audio frequency it's usually substantially higher). The DC resistance of my Wizzy M and Wizzy 110 is about 3 ohms each, so the lowest load impedance these two in paralell could present to an amp is about 1.5 ohms, which should be plenty safe with a 2 ohm amp.

[bribass]

Originally Posted by 61pollmann

If you are going to stack two cabs together, it's always best to use two matching ones(I stack two Bergie 112s). When you have two different cabs, there are issues due to differing sensitivities, impedances, and sometimes polarity. If you drive them with a regular(mono) amp, you have no way of adjusting and balancing them. On the other hand, they may just work well together. You won't know until you try the combination. You do have to be careful about the resultant impedance. If it's too low, your amp may have serious problems. Two 8 ohm cabs in parallel result in 4 ohms, but if one is 8 ohms and the other is 4 ohms, the result is too low for many amps. Remember that an impedance rating(ohms) is only an average, and at certain frequencies it may be considerably lower. If your amp is rated to handle 2 ohm loads, you are usually OK, unless you have two 4 ohm cabs which dip below.

The Acoustic Image Focus 2R III is rated to handle 2 ohms and I've used a Wizzy M pair (each 4 ohms) many times and seems to work very well.

As I understand it the Wizzy M 12 AND 10 are both 4 ohms. Not sure if their sensitivity ratings match. Someone out there knows I'm sure.

I'll try to do a comparison w/ the Wiz M 12 and Wiz M 10 together vs. the pair of Wiz M 12's. The 10 just arrived .

BG

[drurb]

Originally Posted by 61pollmann

If you are going to stack two cabs together, it's always best to use two matching ones...

You may be interested in this old thread.

[bribass]

Tried the Wiz M-lines 12 and 10 together breifly in my studio. ABCed them each alone then together.

I've been playing extensively w/ the M-line 12 for about 14 months and still REALLY loving the sound of that cab alone.

The Wiz 10 alone is pretty nice, but like I always say , 'there's no substitute for mass' so I didn't really expect it to be as great as the 12. It is not. W/ the eq flat, compared to the 12 it lacked some fatness in the low end, but it is a great sounding Little/Light box. W/the lows pushed a bit and mids down some it really does sound great and much bigger than its size. I can see that along w/the Focus it will be a really convenient little Hi-Fi rig. I can now afford to lose one or more of my small combo amps which I generally take out when I think the 12 will be overkill or when space is very tight. Have to say though, that the 12 has a presence and low end that this tiny titan could never have. The 10 has more midrange and does not have omnidirectionality of the 12.

The 10 stacked on the 12: Very nice. Deffinately bigger than the 12 alone.
Makes for a huge sounding mini tower.
Seems to go very well together. I'm not
all that up on the ohmage technical issues, but w/the Focus there does not seem to be any problems. I only know what my ears tell me which is that the sound is GOOD. I have to try this out in the field to really tell ofcourse, but first impressions are favorable w/ BG as well, w/ a little added low end boost. Next I'll AB this stack w/ the two M-line 12's.

robgrow, ever try your 12 and 10 together?

BG

[robgrow]

Originally Posted by bribass

Tried the Wiz M-lines 12 and 10 together breifly in my studio. ABCed them each alone then together...

robgrow, ever try your 12 and 10 together?

BG

Nice review Brian. And thanks for trying to cover the real issue here, which is how the Wizzy 10 and 12 sound together.

I would add that I've found the Wizzy 110's off-axis response in the mids to be quite good, if not amazing. I've also measured good response down to 40 Hz with the Wizzy 110, where most other small 1x10 cabs that I've measured cutoff at 60 or 70 Hz.

I haven't tried my Wizzy 110 and Wizzy M together, since I use a Walter Woods amp, which has a minimum load impedance rating of 4 ohms. Recently however I stupidly used a shorted speaker cable (zero ohms), and my amp is still alive and kicking, so I know it won't instantly self destruct the moment the load impedance falls below 4 ohms. Still it's not a good idea to abuse any amp and plan on running it below its rated minimum load impedance.

[tornadobass]

That's helpful info, Robgrow.

So, here's a related question...

If you had a choice between a Clarus/Wizzy 10 rig or a GK MB150 combo to be used for a variety of gigs on URB and EUB, plus some doubling on electric bass for acoustic music...which way would you go and why?

[bribass]

Originally Posted by tornadobass

That's helpful info, Robgrow.

So, here's a related question...

If you had a choice between a Clarus/Wizzy 10 rig or a GK MB150 combo to be used for a variety of gigs on URB and EUB, plus some doubling on electric bass for acoustic music...which way would you go and why?

Oh, the Clarus/Wizzy 10 IMHO would be far better.

Although convenient, I've never really liked the sound of the MB150 or any GK
stuff that I've used over the years. It's a cold sounding metal box and if it breaks down (which mine did a couple of times) it's a major headache and expense to fix. No local repair guy could figure it out and GK wanted top dollar to fix it. To be fair that was a long time ago and I haven't tried their newer Backline Series, but everytime I have to play at a club that supplies a MB150 or a large GK rig as backline I remember how I dislike them. Yes, clean power but, cold and brittle.

AI and EA stuff is way better!
I haven't put my new Wizzy 10 thru the tests in the gig trenches yet, but just from playing it at home I know it will be great.

But if your gonna have one rig, you may want to check out the M-line 12, however. It'll work great w/ the Clarus and it's really not much bigger than the 10 and although heavier, still pretty darn light and convenient. It can get surprisingly loud and has more heft in the lows than the 10. I'm thinking because of this it'll be better for the BG and EUB.

I know I'm gonna find plenty of use for the 10 in lower volume acoustic gigs, cramped stages and hellacious NYC load-ins, schlepping blocks for street parking to avoid $45 parking garages.
I'll let you know more about its' sound w/ the BG.

Bri

[tornadobass]

Ah, that's also helpful.

I already have a Clarus (series 3) and a regular Wizzy 12. This goes back to my Wizzy 10 + Wizzy 12 question.

If the two Wizzy cabs really do add up, then I'll be going for the Wizzy 10 for small gigs, jams, etc. The Wizzy 12 for somewhat bigger things. And then both together if that works out.

Cheaper to get the Wizzy 10 than a GK combo as well.

[drurb]

Originally Posted by robgrow

...I've also measured good response down to 40 Hz with the Wizzy 110, where most other small 1x10 cabs that I've measured cutoff at 60 or 70 Hz.

I'm curious-- how did you make these measurements and in what type of room?

[bribass]

Originally Posted by tornadobass

Ah, that's also helpful.

I already have a Clarus (series 3) and a regular Wizzy 12. This goes back to my Wizzy 10 + Wizzy 12 question.

If the two Wizzy cabs really do add up, then I'll be going for the Wizzy 10 for small gigs, jams, etc. The Wizzy 12 for somewhat bigger things. And then both together if that works out.

Cheaper to get the Wizzy 10 than a GK combo as well.

Oh yes, ofcourse. But, you have the regular Wizzy 12, not the M-line, right?

I'm hoping to use them together at gigs where I have to play for cocktails in one room and a reception/ dinner dance in another, larger room w/a larger band. I often double on BG on these where I could already have the 12 set to go. Then it would be an easy transfer of the 10 into the 2nd room to stack them for the dinner/dance portion where the added presence would help. Prehaps I may separate the speakers on either sides of the drummer on larger bandstands to spread out the sound.

I think I have a gig like this coming up. I'll report back.
I'd imagine the reg Wiz 12 would work well for this as well.

Bri

[Uncletoad]

Originally Posted by bribass

T The 10 just arrived .

BG

Nice. Quick too you maniac.

Surprising little box. Won't move walls or shake floors but when you want just a little something xtra past acoustic it's just the thing. Try it in a corner or up against and corner and a wall. That horn loads it and really makes it surprising.

[bribass]

Originally Posted by Uncletoad

Nice. Quick too you maniac.

Surprising little box. Won't move walls or shake floors but when you want just a little something xtra past acoustic it's just the thing. Try it in a corner or up against and corner and a wall. That horn loads it and really makes it surprising.

Thnx, Phil. Yeah, had to get it in to write it off for '07.

Hope you've recovered from your NJ/NY flu bug.

Bri

[Uncletoad]

Originally Posted by bribass

Thnx, Phil. Yeah, had to get it in to write it off for '07.

Hope you've recovered from your NJ/NY flu bug.

Bri

Not yet. I sweat and hacked up a lung through last nights gig and spent most of today sleeping.

I've been more sick since I had this child then ever in my life.

[adbass]

thx for the comparison bribass. i think you just convinced me to buy a 12. I've been going back and forth on this for ever, because the wizzy10 can sound great if you eq it just right, and the portability combined with the tone is unbeatable. However, i do miss the depth that a larger speaker delivers.

Just out of curiosity, has anyone out there tried the cxl 112 from EA with a double bass?

[Bob Gollihur]

Originally Posted by adbass

thx for the comparison bribass. i think you just convinced me to buy a 12. I've been going back and forth on this for ever, because the wizzy10 can sound great if you eq it just right, and the portability combined with the tone is unbeatable. However, i do miss the depth that a larger speaker delivers.

Just out of curiosity, has anyone out there tried the cxl 112 from EA with a double bass?

I took one out once- the first thing I did was turn the horn down, IMHO the in-yer-face horn just isnt necessary for URB. It's a very PA-like cab, very clean and neutral sounding with no real bumps of note. That kevlar woofer can get as loud as [insert your own expression], you'd feed back long before you can reach its limits. YMMV, etc., usual disclaimer that I sell 'em, etc.

[tornadobass]

Bob...can you pass along any experience for what happens when you put a Wizzy 12 and Wizzy 10 together?

[adbass]

tornado -- i have a w10, and should be getting an Mline soon. Frankly, I'm impressed with the w10 every time i play through it. It takes a bit of EQing, especially depending on the room, but it can sound really great, at least with my setup (ply, realist, clarus) and the type of playing i do.

I don't know if I'll keep them both when the 12 arrives. Having played a 12 EV cab for many years prior to the w10, I think it will be a difficult decision. There is something to be said about the tone produced from larger speakers that smaller ones can't match. Still, if there was ever a small speaker that sounded bigger than it's actual size the w10 would have to be it.

This is mere speculation, but I imagine the 10 and 12 together would produce a fantastic tone and be louder than an elephant in heat.

Also, thanks bob for the description the Cxl12 -- EA's "best" 12 inch cab. perhaps not best for upright bass.