A Question on Structure

Supernova67 · #1 12-26-2006, 11:26 AM

So, Probably my favorite Christmas present that i received this year was my new JamMan looper. begin a big fan of solo bass i've always wanted to try it out for myself and now i finally can...just one problem...I'm terrible at it. But i guess thats natural seeing as its all completely new to me. I think my problem is i just don't know how to put the piece together. How do i start the tune? what kind of sounds should i use as transitions? Whats a good way to bring it all to an end?
I understand that theres no definite answers to any of these questions, but i would really appreciate hearing any of your opinions on them.
Thanks
-Travis

Supernova67 · #2 12-26-2006, 03:37 PM

dinner time bump.

Nfp01 · #3 12-26-2006, 10:30 PM

I've only been looping for about 4 months, but I'll give what advice I can.

Generally, I try to start off with a rhythm structure. This could be anything from chords to a muted slap rhythm, pickup taps to chordal tapping...

Once that structure is established, you can start having fun with it. Start layering rhythms, adding chords and such, until you have something that fills up the background, but leaves space for a melody line.

Now that I'm trying to explain it, I realize I really can't...what I say and what I play may sound like two different things. I'll mess around with my Jamman the next few days and see if I can come up with a clip for you.

As for ending, I generally try to play in bare feet if I'm sitting, so I can manipulate the knobs with my toes. It sounds odd, yes, but since I don't have a volume pedal (two would be ideal - one on either end of the effects chain), I have to manually adjust the loop volume with my toes. This would kind of suck in a live setting, though, depending on how mighty your feet odor is. =P

Hopefully that will give you a bit of a starting point. I'll try to work out a clip for you if I get a chance - remind me if I forget.

I'm sure someone could explain it better than me, though. ^_~
Once Mr. Manring or Mr. Lawson comes in, I'm sure you'll get a much better idea.

-Nate

Supernova67 · #4 12-27-2006, 02:25 PM

thanks for the advice man, i need all i can get. Any one else willing to chime in with their opinions?

thrash_jazz · #5 12-28-2006, 05:40 PM

I use a JamMan as well! It's a pretty good choice to get started with.

It does take a while to get used to timing the loops properly, so don't worry about it. To quote Steve, a looper is like a whole new instrument. This is especially true of the JamMan, because the start/stop pedal is a bit finicky (on mine, at least).

As for starting a tune, since you're the whole band, you can do it any way you like. You can start with a groove, a percussive line, a melody, chords, funny noises - anything. In fact, it's good practice to try all of the above once in a while and build something out of it.

An easier way to do it when starting out is to put the pedal in fade-out mode and play one long, droning note. There are a lot of things you can do with that, and since it eventually fades out you can easily control where you want the song to go. The JamMan is a bit limiting here, because the minimum loop time is 3.5 seconds, IIRC.

Another key point is to never do anything too complex at the start of the song. The more complicated and busy the loop, the harder it is to add anything to it later.

Transitions can be tough with the JamMan, since it isn't that easy to switch between saved loops. You can do it with the MIDI pedalboard, but you'd still have to have one saved in advance. If you're going for a verse/chorus/verse structure, that's pretty much the easiest way to do it unless your chorus isn't looped.

I think the best way to handle transitions with the JamMan is to stop the loop and start playing the next part at the same time. Then, erase the previous loop and loop the next part once the first is gone. It sounds tricky, but once you get the hang of it it's not too bad.

Finally, it depends on if you're improvising or writing songs the old-fashioned way. If you're improvising, I would suggest just doing what feels right. The big advantage of the looper for improvisors is that it gives you time to think about what the piece feels like and where it can or should go. If you're writing, it's probably easiest to write the parts one by one and worry about the transitions last.

Hope this helps!

Supernova67 · #6 01-11-2007, 07:25 PM

well a combination of school and a broken string have kept me away from my bass for a little bit and while i have plenty of cool ideas i'd really appreciate it if anyone had an idea of how to arrange them. i guess this can be my extremely delayed new years bump.

Supernova67 · #7 01-13-2007, 11:28 PM

dose anybody read these?

Kitsapbass · #8 01-14-2007, 09:45 AM

yes - but seeings that i don't have a looper, i have no advice...

sorry

DeathDancer · #9 01-18-2007, 02:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Supernova67

dose anybody read these?

Yes, but I also don't use a looper as the previous user mentioned. There aren't that many of us watching this forum compared to the main forum, have you tried to post this question there as well? It may get more responses since it will likely get more viewers.

**Steve Lawson** · #10 01-18-2007, 10:10 AM

Hey Supernova,

sorry for the delay replying - you've just caught Michael and I in the middle of a very busy time for both of us!

Arrangements with loops - I found it really useful to sit down with a piece of paper a draw some shapes - I use oblongs to represent bits of songs - and see how visually I can come up with as many different ways to loop, stop, restart, rerecord, remove bits of the tune using whatever options my particular looper has.

Assuming that you're not using the pre-recorded loop option in the JamMan, you can start with a chord progression and just play over it. If you make the progression pretty open harmonically, further down the line you can add some other notes to it (bass line or more detail to the chords) that changes the harmony. You could loop the verse, stop it for the chorus, even delete it and loop something else for the chorus before looping the verse again... there's no rule that says you can't re-loop the same part to free up some space for a while.

You could have a loop that stops every fourth bar, while you play something else in the space - so a one bar loop that plays three times, then you stop it, play, and then retrigger it...

have a play with it, see what you come up with, and post some of your thoughts here!

sorry for the delay... sometimes you just have to wait for the loop to come back round to the start again.

Steve
www.stevelawson.net

**Michael Manring** · #11 03-05-2007, 12:11 AM

And I'm even slower in responding than Steve! My apologies...

I think it's great you're asking these kinds of questions -- the kind where sometimes the question is more intriguing than the answer! I try to ask myself these kinds of things anytime I’m working on a new piece of music, whether I‘m looping or not.

There’s been some great advice already; I’ll just add that, when working with a system (an electronic device, software, a technique or even an instrument) I sometimes find inspiration in the parameters of the system itself. Most systems are better at some things than others, many systems have hidden capabilities. I like to spend time thinking about how I can work with the qualities of any particular system in a way that seems effective or meaningful. In the case of a looper, that may mean coming to understand all it’s designed to do, what it may be able to do that it wasn’t necessarily designed for, what happens when you use it at or beyond its limits or how you can use it in a less obvious way. Often the best option is to use the system conventionally, but I find it inspiring to consider the various options.