bass mic

[Fishbrain]

Just a quick question, what mic would you recommend for recording bass amps. It's only for a personal studio so it will only be doing my amp. It's a ampeg svt3 head with a warwick 411 and 115 pro cabs. Also which position by the cabs would u put it? Thanks.

[zongeek]

Senheiser MD 421
EV RE20

... mostly any large diaphram mic. Kick drum mics are good.

As far as placement of the mic, you'll have to expirement with that one. Start 6-12 inches away and go from there until you get the sound you want.

There is a very comprehensive thread about this somewhere. If you do a search for bass mics, I'm sure you'll find it.

With your cabs anyway you want to set them will do. On top of each other, both on the floor (this will give you a stronger bass response), whatever.

Recording is like painting or making music, there are no rules and whatever works and sounds good to you is what works and sounds good.

Good luck.

[Fishbrain]

cheers =)

[Dave Muscato]

Second the Sennheiser MD 421. The originals are better than the Mark IIs IMO.

Another good one is the Shure Beta 52.

Dave

[Ronan]

Originally Posted by Dave Muscato

Second the Sennheiser MD 421. The originals are better than the Mark IIs IMO.

Another good one is the Shure Beta 52.

That's what I was gonna say but Dave beat me to it.

Keep in mind that when you are micing cabs close, very small movements can make a big difference in sound. Center of the cone will give more definition, closer to the edge of the speaker will be smoother with less definition.

[Rick Brienzo]

My short list in no order

Sennheiser 421
Shure Sm57
Studio Projects B1
AKG C414
Shure Beta 52
AKG D112


You have to choose your microphone like you would choose a bass for a track. If it’s a dense mix with lots of loud guitars I would go with a SM57 or the 421 to cut through. If its a jazz track I would use something cleaner with a better top and bottom end like a AKG C414, B1, or any other large diaphragm. If you need huge bottom end use the Beta 52 or D112. If you need options at mix time use one of the kick drum microphones in conjunction with one of the dynamics or condensers.

What ever you decide on make sure you experiment with placement. Just a couple of inches of movement can make a world of difference.


I will leave you with this quote because it is the ultimate truth.

Originally Posted by zongeek

Recording is like painting or making music, there are no rules and whatever works and sounds good to you is what works and sounds good.

Good luck.

[TL5]

Second (or is it third or more) on the RE20 and the Sennhieser.

Another mic to consider is the Shure SM7b

It's a great large diaphram dynamic that can be used on many things. I've used them as a voice-over mic on many radio spots.

[Techmonkey]

For the money, you can't go wrong with an SM57. does me for guitar, bass, snare drum, sax and trumpet.

It's not the best choice for any of those instruments, but by far the best value IMO.

[Ronan]

Originally Posted by Techmonkey

For the money, you can't go wrong with an SM57. does me for guitar, bass, snare drum, sax and trumpet.

It's not the best choice for any of those instruments, but by far the best value IMO.

Actually many times it is the best choice for several of those instruments.

[Techmonkey]

mmm, perhaps I should have had "all" instead of "any" in that sentence...

either way, it's a fantastic mic!

[Dave Martin]

Be wary of 'kick drum mics', because a number of them are designed with drastic equalization curves built into them. i don't know about the Beta 52, but I wouldn't use an AKG D112 on ANYTHING - especially kick drum....

[MM-Stingray5]

The MDs are great mic but pricey as hell. Check out the sennheiser E 602 and 902 they handle low freq very well. (technically the same mic)

my personal favortie that is actually a kick drum mic is the EV 868 sounds amazing!!!

[spectorbass83]

Originally Posted by zongeek

Senheiser MD 421
EV RE20

... mostly any large diaphram mic. Kick drum mics are good.

As far as placement of the mic, you'll have to expirement with that one. Start 6-12 inches away and go from there until you get the sound you want.

I use a kick drum mic when recording bass except its always close to the cab. I'm talking like 1-2" away from the grill of the cab.

Is close micing a cab recommended when recording bass? Will the sound vary much if the mic is 6-12" away?

[Rick Brienzo]

Originally Posted by spectorbass83

Is close micing a cab recommended when recording bass? Will the sound vary much if the mic is 6-12" away?

Close micing a cab works great. And yes the sound will vary a lot the further you pull it away from the source.

Up close you will get more bass and high end and as you move the mic further out you seem to get more midrange. When you get even further away the sound of the room starts to take over.

One of my favorite bass amp micing techniques is to use a kick drum mic like a Beta 52 right up against the grill and a large diaphragm about 2 feet away.

[Ghost_85]

if your set on a mic a kick drum mic is the best bet really, AKG D112 is very good for that. However, I find it better to use a tech 21 sans amp and just DI. Or if you have the money and inputs do both and then mix. i like to use at least three tracks for bass when recording - 1 dynamic mic, 1 capacitor mic and then a DI through a pre-amp usually my sans amp

[vicenzajay]

The Audix D-4 really fits the bill. Nice, even frequency response across the spectrum with decent off-axis rejection. It also does not bloom so badly with the bass response right next to the cab grill. Pair it up with a track direct from your preamp (pre EQ) and perhaps a condensor a foot or two away from the cab and blend those three tracks to taste.

Jay

[SubGuitar]

+1 for the MD421

-1 for the SM57. They have a big low frequency cut. This can be good for compensating for proximity effect, but personally I don't like putting the mic that close on a bass amp. It generally sounds better to me if the mics further away, eg 6-12 inches like zongeek suggests.

Various kick drum mics can work well too.

[hbarcat]

I've recorded bass with the Sure Beta 52 and Sm-57, the AKG D-112 and C-414 and some Carvin bass mic (I dont remember what it's called) and gotten different "good" results with each. The only thing that matters is whether you like the sound that results.

Frankly, I usually prefer to DI out from my amp. I also have an SVT-3 Pro and the line out sounds fantastic as-is.

[adam on bass]

I use the D112 on all of my sessions just for the signal and use it when it requires a little ommphhh.

[Brad Maestas]

I'm not too keen on what the D112 and the Beta52 mics do to the top end. Both were designed principally with the bass drum in mind and they have built-in presence peaks to accentuate the "click" of the beater hitting the batter head. Unfortunately they also tend to roll off the higher frequencies. They boost the lows a lot and I find that unnatural-sounding too. I tend to prefer more neutral mics, both dynamics and condensers. The Senn 421 is a great dynamic as is both the E/V RE-20 and its lower-cost sibling the PL-20. Blue Mics make the Blue Ball *giggle* which is supposed to be a great multi-purpose dynamic. The Blue Baby Bottle mic was bundled with my Digi002 and I use it a lot. It's a large-diaphram cardioid condenser. It captures lots of detail and it can handle very high SPL's. It also has a very high output so if you have cheap, noisy preamps like the ones in the Digi002, you can get a much cleaner signal to disc than with comparable dynamic mics, which usually have a much lower output. Yes the Baby Bottle, like most large-diaphram condensers, has a presence peak too but it's less intrusive than the D112 or Beta52, IMO.


Here are the curves for the D112




and the Beta52

Sources:
D112 specs: http://www.akg.com/products/powersla...iew,specs.html
Beta52 specs: http://www.shure.com/ProAudio/Produc...eta52A_content

You can see that the D112 has a peak centered around 3.5kHz and the Beta52 has a huge one around 4kHz. You can also see how much they bloat the low end, depending on proximity. The Beta also rolls off sharply past 6k and that's where all the good stuff is, IMO. That's what I want. The room sound and the "air" is up there. They're fine for live stage work but for recording, I like a more detailed mic. I usually blend with a DI so the mic is providing the air instead of the fundamental.

As far as miking positions go with your cabinets, start with the basics. If you're going to be doing any engineering it's always a good idea to get a good text to consult. "Modern Recording Techniques" is a standard text in many schools and it pretty much explains everything. Generally speaking, if you want a tighter more focused sound you would mic one of the 10" speakers. If you like the woolier sound of the 15", you could use that one instead. Many of the engineers I've worked with would, in this situation, mic one of the 10" speakers and not even hook up the 15" to the amp. It all depends if you're just going to use the mic sound alone or if you're going to blend it with a DI. If you're just using the mic as the single source, you'd want to get as much low end as you need but if you're blending with a DI, it's common to get more high end since the DI usually has plenty of lows. Meanwhile, some engineers record the basses and guitars thin and add lows during mix-down since they feel they can control and sculpt the bass better, resulting in better seperation of all the instruments.

I usually remove the grille(s) before recording to minimize the chance of anything rattling and ruining a take. Be aware that you'll get a variety of different sounds if the mic is positioned over the middle of the speaker (voice coil), towards the edge (surround), "on-axis" (90deg) or "off-axis" (45deg). I tend to prefer miking my cabs off-axis near the surround or on-axis at the edge of the voice coil. Generally speaking, positioning the mic "on-axis" has more bass while "off-axis" has less bass. Near the voice coil it's generally sharper and near the surround it's rounder. Then when you factor in distance, you have a few variables to experiment with. Not to drag on but also remember that during the recording and mixing process, you lose some high end so some people compensate for that during mic positioning. I've gotten just the tone I wanted and then when I listen back to it in the mix, it's a little too dark. Now I've gotten used to tracking with a somewhat brighter tone so that the final product is what I was looking for. What might sound great by itself or in the cans might not be quite so great once you mix it down. Just a thought....or five!

Here's a song that was done with an RE-20 off-axis at the edge of an Epifani UL112 blended with a little DI.
On The Corner