Before you dismiss "cheap" mics

[otis_thick]

Long story

I work at a midwest NPR TV/Radio station meaing I have to work with very tight/tiny budgets. I have done my research and I have been able to find some very impressive yet inexpensive gear for recording and have put together a great sounding remote mutitrack/livebroadcast setup and a pretty good studio setup. I just finished up a series of national classical piano and orchestra recordings as well as live/multitracked electric blues concerts and I have recieved 3 Emmy nominations for "sound" with this collection of gear... and the classical piano performers have said they are planning to release the recordings and submit them for Grammy consideration...that alone made my year because I know nothing about classical music...other than how I think it should sound! Ok here is my point. An engineer snob for another studio was going on about his new pair of upper end microphones he just got for about $2500.00 and I should save up my money instead of buying what I have and get some good mics like his.
Like I said, I did my research first so, It was so good to show him this article and watch his whole world crumble

http://www.studioreviews.com/m16-460.htm

I have two of the Apex.

[sonic assassin]

im a big fan of cheap dynamic mics. cheap condensers are typically chinese knock off's of a thousand other mics.. most of which with piercing high end and no bottom.

but a cheap ribbon mic, character out the ASS. royer can kiss my ass.. my cheapo shinybox is glorious in its cheapness.

i had a pair of digital reference mics laying around when recording my old band.. cheap dynamic mics we were using for practice room vocals. amazing for 45' off axis guitar sounds. never got to put one on a snare. 30 dollars.. cornerstone of my guitar mix in balancing out my bright "center cone" mics (906 and a 421).

id heard about the apex/telefunken thing before. apparently people werent huge fans of the m-16 in the first place, and it was redesigned later. there are TONS of mods done to 460's. look it up on gearsluts

[otis_thick]

Originally Posted by sonic assassin

im a big fan of cheap dynamic mics. cheap condensers are typically chinese knock off's of a thousand other mics.. most of which with piercing high end and no bottom.

but a cheap ribbon mic, character out the ASS. royer can kiss my ass.. my cheapo shinybox is glorious in its cheapness.

i had a pair of digital reference mics laying around when recording my old band.. cheap dynamic mics we were using for practice room vocals. amazing for 45' off axis guitar sounds. never got to put one on a snare. 30 dollars.. cornerstone of my guitar mix in balancing out my bright "center cone" mics (906 and a 421).

id heard about the apex/telefunken thing before. apparently people werent huge fans of the m-16 in the first place, and it was redesigned later. there are TONS of mods done to 460's. look it up on gearsluts

There were plenty of fans when the Telefunken came out it was being compaired to the $5000.00 Elux 251. I did not see negative reviews until the reveal.

You may like this site

http://www.thelisteningsessions.com/home.htm

http://www.thelisteningsessions.com/session5.htm

[sonic assassin]

that may be the case.. im not entirely sure, but i had heard that the m16 wasnt all the popular, and although they were outraged that their design had been ripped (and sold for much less), the general public didnt really care.

with that, i heard that the 460 is a nice little tube mic for a beginner. i considered one for a bit, but didnt have any reference to go from.. so i didnt bother. bluebird is my go to condenser now.

[otis_thick]

Originally Posted by sonic assassin

that may be the case.. im not entirely sure, .

The M16 was nominated for the AES TEC award when it came out. Here are a few reads from the time the m16 first came out

Review of the $10,000 Eluxe 251
http://mixguides.com/microphones/rev...n_ela_october/

Comparing M16 to 251
http://www.3daudioinc.com/3db/archiv...hp/t-6669.html

[musicelectronix]

I was looking for a decent tube studio conderser mic and accidentally saw this thread. I did some research on the topic myself and convinced it may be what I am looking for.

Needless to say, I just purchased an Apex 460. Thank you! Do you have other secrets to share?

[seamonkey]

I wouldn't dis' the low cost FET base condensors either.

[bongomania]

I'm a fan of Oregon-based mic company ADK, and their whole premise is boutique quality at a lower price (by manufacturing the boutique designs in China). Their custom-shop stuff is US-made, and costs accordingly. The owner told me a funny story--He loaned some mics to Fletcher at Mercenary Audio, and Fletcher loved them. He raved about how great they sounded. Then the ADK guy told him they were made in China and sold for a fairly low price, and Fletcher did a complete 180, talking about how obviously inferior the mics were. To this day Fletcher talks dirt about ADK, even though he hasn't used them since.

[Foamy]

Good thing we're not comparing Behringer mic's to, well....anything... I think the tone here would be very different, but aren't we tacitly praising a couple companies here that some folks blast Behringer for doing? I am not saying that y'all in this thread do that, but aren't we kind of talking about the same thing here?

[bongomania]

Yes, guilty as charged. *embarrassed*

[knarleybass]

I have the Apex 460, I did some mods to it, it's great, also I like the Karma Mics, they are a great value.

[Foamy]

Originally Posted by bongomania

Yes, guilty as charged. *embarrassed*

Nah, no need to be, of course! I'm a Behringer fan, and I don't hide it. I LOVE my BDI-21 and it is a blatant copy of our favorite Bass Driver. I own a handful of Behringer rack stuff too. I've bought a tube based 2-channel preamp, a 4-channel compressor/limiter/enhancer/parametric EQ, and a very nice 4-channel headphone amp. Each one was around $50 used. And they are great units!
Anyhow....man....now I feel a bit like a wet blanket. Sorry.......

[knarleybass]

I have a Behringer Tube Mic Pre, currently residing in storage, but it's a great pre.

[otis_thick]

Originally Posted by bongomania

I'm a fan of Oregon-based mic company ADK, and their whole premise is boutique quality at a lower price (by manufacturing the boutique designs in China). Their custom-shop stuff is US-made, and costs accordingly. The owner told me a funny story--He loaned some mics to Fletcher at Mercenary Audio, and Fletcher loved them. He raved about how great they sounded. Then the ADK guy told him they were made in China and sold for a fairly low price, and Fletcher did a complete 180, talking about how obviously inferior the mics were. To this day Fletcher talks dirt about ADK, even though he hasn't used them since.

I have been in a few threads with Fletcher, he is good at what he does "hot rodding" gear but he, Violet, Royer, Manley etc know large scale over seas manufaturing has gotten so much better those listed (minus Fletcher) now out sourse there. Fletcher for his business sake can't say anything good about inexpensive Chinese mics. Look for Scott Dorsey, who is known for his mic mod kit ([$20.00 in parts)

http://www.proaudioreview.com/article/19850

[Bongolation]

Originally Posted by otis_thick

Long story

http://www.studioreviews.com/m16-460.htm

So, these are internally the identical microphones from the same place?

What I wonder about is why the Chinese can't make good transformers (note the review). "Lousy transformers" is all I hear about Chinese recording microphones.

[Bongolation]

Originally Posted by Foamy

I'm a Behringer fan, and I don't hide it. I LOVE my BDI-21 and it is a blatant copy of our favorite Bass Driver.

Actually, it's not. There are lots of differences, most importantly the absence of the "magic" TLC2262 OpAmp that is supposedly the "secret" to the SansAmp sound...but it is too expensive to have been used at the ultra-low BDI21 price point. The Behringer uses cheap 4558 & TL074 opamps from various manufacturers.

But the BDI21 is a great little unit for $21-$25.

We now return to the topic at hand...

[Bongolation]

Originally Posted by sonic assassin

but a cheap ribbon mic, character out the ASS. royer can kiss my ass..

The problem with cheap Chinese ribbons (aside from the transformers) is that -- according to Michael Joly -- about 40% of them have slack ribbons out of the box. I wouldn't doubt it. QC is what kills you on cheap gear.

i had a pair of digital reference mics laying around when recording my old band.. cheap dynamic mics we were using for practice room vocals. amazing for 45' off axis guitar sounds.

Please, no, not these!!

No? [phew!] Good! These pieces of junk have the same atrocious element as the $9 Nady croakers. I got burned on a three-pack of these things at a Guitar Center grand opening. Even at about $12 each they were a beat.

[sonic assassin]

Originally Posted by Bongolation

The problem with cheap Chinese ribbons (aside from the transformers) is that -- according to Michael Joly -- about 40% of them have slack ribbons out of the box. I wouldn't doubt it. QC is what kills you on cheap gear.

Please, no, not these!!

No? [phew!] Good! These pieces of junk have the same atrocious element as the $9 Nady croakers. I got burned on a three-pack of these things at a Guitar Center grand opening. Even at about $12 each they were a beat.

shinybox buys cheapo ribbons, fixes them up and rebrands them. no slack ribbon. he also has different output transformers in the more expensive mics.

and the DR mics were these

they worked well for what i was doing..

[projectMalamute]

My new favorite condensers are modded Oktava 219's. Mine have all the common mechanical mods done and the stock electronics. May or may not do the electronics mods down the road. They sound pretty great the way they are now. Way, way cheaper than a Neumann.

[D.A.R.K.]

cheap, killer mics?
shure ksm27. 200 bucks a pop,
my go-to for studio or live for a large diaphragm condenser.
http://www.guitarcenter.com/Shure-KS...15-i1126544.gc
these mics are absolutely solid, and will work on anything.