Drum Mics for Recording/Live Performance

BuffaloBob4343 · #1 08-18-2006, 02:44 PM

OK, just to let you know, I have done searches here and have not found answers to my question; at least not directly enough.

I am just setting up a home studio (Pro Tools LE/DigiDesign002/Mac) and I also a PA system. I already have 3 Beta 87As for live vocals and I have a Allen & Heath 24 channel board for live performance.

What I am wondering is will the 87As be good enough for now for recording vocals? Would a DMK 5752 Drum Mic set (1 Beta 52 and 3 SM57s with clip mounts) be sufficient for recording and live performance? Are the Beta SM98s that much better? What type of condenser Mics would be best for overhead (for cymbals) for recording?

I guess the ultimate questions is, what would be the most efficent package of Mics for me to accomplish this without going too overboard with the cost. I am not terribly budget limited, but I don't want to spend a ton of money unnecessarily.

Of course, if anyone is aware of a thread that answers my questions, please post the link.

Thanks so much for the help.

chrisp2u · #2 08-18-2006, 03:52 PM

Mic choices are mostly subjective (though there are quite a few ol' faithfuls) and also depend upon a lot of factors such as technique/placement, your room, the type of sound you're looking for, and most of all... what sounds good to you.

You might want to take a look around here for some good tips and suggestions:
http://www.gearslutz.com/

Don't be discourage by a lot of the gear snobbery there... there's tons of great info for all levels of recording and budgets.

Might also want to nose around:
http://www.prosoundweb.com/

I've had pretty decent results with as little as 3 mics (and this was on a really BIG kit... think Neil Peart, but not his)... a couple of overheads (usually small diaphragm condensors in spaced pair, XY, or ORTF) and a bass drum mic (Shure Beta 52).

Depending on the kind of control you want when mixing, # of availble mic pres during recording, your kit setup, and what you have/can afford, or mic'ing technique pretty much determines how many mics to use... there really are no rules and everyone generally has their own set ways... as long as it sounds good in the end. Note that the more mics you use, the higher likelyhood you'll have phase problems unless you're doing a lot of real close mic'ing.

Hope this helps. Good luck.
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Chris

BuffaloBob4343 · #3 08-18-2006, 04:12 PM

Hey thanks Chris. I have a lot to learn, I know!

Robert

chrisp2u · #4 08-18-2006, 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BuffaloBob4343

Hey thanks Chris. I have a lot to learn, I know!

The learning never ends... and usually leads to more GAS. That gearslutz site should keep you busy for quite a while... there's a bunch of industry pros (recording engineers, producers and such) that seem to frequent there often... some pretty cool stuff there when everybody isn't busy arguiing about what's the best mic pre ever... and there are plenty of opinions on mics and mic'ing technique too :-)

Just noticed you're also in Buffalo... guess I should've known by the name.
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Chris

christobass 416 · #5 08-18-2006, 05:32 PM

Hey, thanks for the links! Gonna need 'em sooner or later.

BuffaloBob4343 · #6 08-18-2006, 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chrisp2u

Just noticed you're also in Buffalo... guess I should've known by the name.
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Chris

I didn't notice that the first time either!

Thanks for the links. You playing in any local bands?

Robert

chrisp2u · #7 08-18-2006, 08:19 PM

I just got back into playing about a year and a half ago after a lengthy hiatus. Been getting together with a group of guys for about a year to jam on occasion. We originally just got together just for fun (since everyone has jobs and family) to play cover tunes, but there's been chatter of actually playing out. We'll see... maybe if we can get together more than once a month

How about you?
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c

Ronan · #8 08-18-2006, 08:27 PM

There are lots of options and you said nothing about budget, but for drum recording if you have a couple Shure KSM32s for overheads, a Beta52 for the Kick and an SM57 for the snare its tough to go wrong. Another condensor for the room and you are golden. with this set up, if your drums do not sound amazing it is not the fault of your mic collection.

chrisp2u · #9 08-18-2006, 10:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ronan

There are lots of options and you said nothing about budget, but for drum recording if you have a couple Shure KSM32s for overheads, a Beta52 for the Kick and an SM57 for the snare its tough to go wrong. Another condensor for the room and you are golden. with this set up, if your drums do not sound amazing it is not the fault of your mic collection.

Now there's a guy that knows a thing or 2 (and probably 3 or 4, or more) about mixing and engineering.

Are there anything those KSM32's don't sound good on, Ronan? Seems I've been reading an awful lot about them lately. You set those up as spaced pair? Also, do you know how the KSM27's compare (besides cheaper) to the 32? I may have to check them out... I've been considering some new mics for overheads (been using various chinese mics I've had around). The KSM's are a bit more than I originally planned on dropping, but if they're that flexible, it would be way worth it.
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Chris

Ronan · #10 08-18-2006, 11:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chrisp2u

Are there anything those KSM32's don't sound good on, Ronan? Seems I've been reading an awful lot about them lately. Also, do you know how the KSM27's compare (besides cheaper) to the 32? I may have to check them out.

There is no mic that is perfect for everything. There are even times when a mic you think would be perfect for something is not a good match, but the KSM32 is really amazing on a lot of different things. I actually like it better than the more expensive KSM-44 (which is also a very cool mic). Unfortunately I have no experience with the KSM27.

chrisp2u · #11 08-18-2006, 11:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ronan

There is no mic that is perfect for everything. There are even times when a mic you think would be perfect for something is not a good match, but the KSM32 is really amazing on a lot of different things. I actually like it better than the more expensive KSM-44 (which is also a very cool mic). Unfortunately I have no experience with the KSM27.

Whoops... just noticed you posted while I edited my last post, so you prob missed the question I added... do you set those 32's up as a spaced pair for the OH's? Thanks.
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Chris

Ronan · #12 08-19-2006, 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chrisp2u

Whoops... just noticed you posted while I edited my last post, so you prob missed the question I added... do you set those 32's up as a spaced pair for the OH's? Thanks.

That is a really good and common starting point for me (but you need to check that the phase will not get totally whacked if you decide to collapse the overheads to mono) But I change things up all the time. Recording would be so boring if it was done with a formula.

XY pairs overhead can be great, spaced pairs infront of, or behind the kit, one mono overhead......

BuffaloBob4343 · #13 08-19-2006, 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ronan

There are lots of options and you said nothing about budget, but for drum recording if you have a couple Shure KSM32s for overheads, a Beta52 for the Kick and an SM57 for the snare its tough to go wrong. Another condensor for the room and you are golden. with this set up, if your drums do not sound amazing it is not the fault of your mic collection.

Wow,

Such a cool and expereinced person to be responding to my inquiry!

You're right, I did not specify budget. Budget is not a huge constraint, but this will be a home recording studio so I don't want to outspend the context. Also, it would be nice if the set-up can do double duty for live shows.

But this sounds good for a start.

MM-Stingray5 · #14 08-31-2006, 01:03 AM

I do live sound and when i do a show i use the following mics.

Kick-EV 868
Snare-sm57
Hats-sm57
Tom-sennheiser e604/e904
Tom-sennheiser e604/e904
Tom-sennheiser e604/e904
Overheads-AKG 550s x2

hbarcat · #15 09-05-2006, 11:58 PM

I'll also vouch for the KSM32s for overheads. They just sound sweet.

As long as you close mic the kick you can get away with using just three mics for the drums (1-kick plus 2-overheads) but I prefer to use four mics (by adding a close mic to the snare). I sometimes use a spare "budget" bass mic for this purpose since I often prefer the beefier bottom end for the snare sound. But that's just a matter of personal taste for me. My go-to mic for the kick is the AKG D112.

hbarcat · #16 09-06-2006, 12:06 AM

Something to consider is buying a large diaphram condenser microphone and it can do double duty in the studio as a vocal mic and also as a drum/instrument mic. If you buy two, you have a pair for overheads or room mics.

There are so many to choose from at every price level from $50 to many thousands of dollars and if you thought it might be beneficial to go this route then you'll have to ask around and read a lot of objective reviews to get an idea of which brand and which mic is best for your needs.