Final mastering..

chjohnst · #1 05-06-2009, 09:33 AM

When mastering a track do you guys use headphones to do the mastering? or should I be playing them over a set of monitors? If the preference is a set of monitors, what should I be looking to invest in for the home studio? Would a simple receiver and two speakers be good enough to do the job?

I sometimes do my mastering when the wife goes to bed so I generally have to use a set of headphones so I dont keep her up. I find that the sound I get in a set of bose noise canceling headphones sounds nothing like that I hear in the final mix played on a set of ipod earbuds, in the car or even on my home stereo in my living room.

-Chris

Bardley · #2 05-06-2009, 09:51 AM

I, personally, would never master anything on anything that has a Bose label on it. Bose uses processing to make it sound "better" to the average person. You want something with a neutral sound, which is not Bose. If you want monitors, invest in quality studio monitors with a flat response, preferably the powered variety since the power amp will be matched nicely with the speaker. A simple receiver and home stereo speakers will not give you an accurate picture. You are looking for full-range, flat response speakers so you can tell what is actually going on in the mix.

Also, do not neglect the room. Minimize reflections from walls and use proper speaker placement. HERE is a ton of info on room acoustics which have as much bearing on what you hear as your speakers do. Search for DIY acoustics for some budget friendly alternatives to the expensive commercial acoustic treatments.

Beyer160 · #3 05-06-2009, 09:54 AM

If at all possible, avoid mixing or mastering anything on headphones- it just doesn't translate to speakers.

If you absolutely can't work on speakers though, the "car check" is invaluable.

chjohnst · #4 05-06-2009, 10:00 AM

I kind of figured this was the response I would be getting on this topic. I have been using headphones all this time to process the final mastering (mostly like I said because the wife is in bed) and in the end I was finding myself doing the mix to suit the headphones which may sound good at the mix-down. But once I play the song on earbuds, car stereo or home stereo its sounds like dookie.

An investment in a pair of monitors sounds like a worthy one. For my home studio I still need to invest in a pair of monitors for vocals and keyboards would it be safe to use a set of those (the ones I am looking at have 2-12" subs and horns) and are on a set of stands which would use for live performances and rehearsals OR should I spend the money a nice pair of desktop studio monitors. Like M-audio?

My budget is tight here, around ~dollars is what I would be looking to spend.

http://pro-audio.musiciansfriend.com...ors?sku=600739

Bardley · #5 05-06-2009, 10:09 AM

Those M-Audio monitors would do a decent job. You may be able to fine some used monitors for a little less and save some $. Just remember to learn the quirks with any monitor. I mix here at work on SLS S8R ribbon monitors. They are like $1500 a pair without the amp. However, they do lack low end so a final mix tends to be bass heavy on other playback sources if you go by these speakers alone. I have to mix knowing they are light on bass to get the mix right elsewhere. So, even if you have quality monitors, you still have to adjust the mix for the proper response.

chjohnst · #6 05-06-2009, 10:57 AM

Yea just using the headphones I found my final mixes just coming out the complete opposite of what I hear in the headphones.

Will look around for something used otherwise ill pick up a new set.

seamonkey · #7 05-06-2009, 12:12 PM

Get a few pair of headphones and earbuds - they them all to hear and get use to the difference. I use both.
If most your listener will be listening with headphones or earphones it's fine to mix down to them.
If you find a need to use monitors, there are products that help take the speakers and room out of the equation. One is ARC
http://www.ikmultimedia.com/arc/features/

chjohnst · #8 05-06-2009, 12:16 PM

$599.99 <--- yowzers

My studio is not a professional, just for fun with some friends making an album and recording demos. Dont think I need all that :-)

I just want to pick up a nice set of monitors that I can use to playback our recordings and for doing a mixdown. I think the m-audios look good for the money.

Dom Phenom · #9 05-06-2009, 12:18 PM

You should use as many references as you can. Ideally, you have super hi-fi monitors, crappy ones, a boom box, good headphones, ipod earbuds, car stereos, etc.

This is the final step, so you need to make sure it sounds good everywhere.

I think investing in a decent set is a great idea, but you should get some cheap used ones as well for the home studio, and a boombox, imo.

chjohnst · #10 05-06-2009, 12:21 PM

Yea I cant imagine the final mix down to be100% complete by just listening to them on studio monitors. I would think I should be listening to the track in headphones, car, home speakers to get the final overall sound on all types of audio devices. These days though everyone listens to everything on headphones with their ipods.

i_got_a_mohawk · #11 05-06-2009, 02:00 PM

I will do a final mix with some studio monitors, then give it a listen with some decent can-type headphones. If I'm happy with it then, I'll try PC speakers, car stereo systems, a good Denon stereo etc etc. Just as many different sources as possible to make sure there isnt something obviously completelly out of place.

DocBop · #12 05-06-2009, 08:43 PM

The key to mastering is knowing what the speakers you master on sound like in relation to the target system(s). Mastering engineers may make multiple masters for different targetsThat take time and a lot of experimentation and listening on many system. As for headphone not good for mastering, maybe final check on your pan's but that about it. Speakers for recording $599 is low end stuff. I would say from what your describe what your doing don't even worry about mastering. Work on your mixes, test them on a number of systems, and if they sound good to your then your golden.

kjs · #13 05-06-2009, 09:02 PM

The guy above me got it...it's great to know the relationship between nice monitors, cruddy stereo speakers, car speakers, and laptop speakers.

Laptop speakers especially these days, i can't tell you how often i hear people bash the sound quality of a recording because they can't hear anything below 500Hz on their laptop speakers...it's a good idea to try and get some of the high mids of the kick and bass present enough to be audible...in my opinion, because a lot of people do a lot of their listening this way(previewing potential bands to support via myspace or other quick lo-fi sources.)

Mix at low volumes and take breaks, it's very easy to throw the baby out with the bathwater, have something to listen to as a reference point (a favorite cd or the rough mix.)

fretlessrock · #14 05-07-2009, 05:56 AM

Though I would rather work with good monitors, I have a set of AKG 240DF's that are very accurate and you can get good mixes on them. They are specifically a very flat headphone and they are high impedance, so you will need a decent amp to drive them. The headphone out from my MOTU 896HD is fine, and I have put my Raven PHA-1 into service with them and that is usable as well. There are more "normal" cans that are good choices as well. maybe a resource like http://headphone.com could help you out. I'd get away from consumer cans, noise canceling, bass boosting, or any of that other junk. It isn't that headphones can't be used to mix, it is that there are a lot of bad choices for headphones!

fokof · #15 05-07-2009, 07:46 AM

I have a problem with the word "Mastering" in that case. It's not mastering you're doin' , it's EQ'ing/Mixing.

Mastering is done in a real Studio , with hundred of thousands of equipement to listen , EQ , and compress , etc....

You are not mastering only because you have a "mastering" plugin.

Rant aside, it's crutial to mix on the reference you know best , if your speakers don't give you anything below 40hz , lookout for the garbage when you're gonna listen to it on system that DOES have some.
Important to have a flat/uncolored reference or else , you're gonna cut /boost frequencies that don't necessary needed to be cuted.

PS; I have the same opinion with the word "Studio".....

chjohnst · #16 05-07-2009, 08:07 AM

From my perspective and bands perspective, we call it mastering since this is the "final" part for us to get our tracks ready for our demo. Sure when we go to a professional "studio" where we pay hard earned cash for an engineers time and use of their equipment we will go through this process all over again.

In any case, I think I am going to pick a decent set of monitors. Yamaha and M-Audio have a nicely priced setup for under 300 dollars that is within my budget. Using bose headphones just seems like a bad idea to begin with and I should not be using them for the initial process.

PPS.... last time I checked this is what a studio is.

Studio \Stu"di*o\, n.; pl. Studios. [It. studio, properly,
study. See Study.]
The working room of an artist.
[1913 Webster]

DocBop · #17 05-07-2009, 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chjohnst

From my perspective and bands perspective, we call it mastering since this is the "final" part for us to get our tracks ready for our demo.

If you're going to hang out in recording forums and talk with recording engineers you need to learn the language.

From a recording perspective you are not mastering, also not all studios are mastering studios. Mastering is a very special skill and for demo's and such usually aren't mastered. The term goes back to the engineers that specialized in taking the 2-track final mix and cutting the lacquer master for pressing vinyl records. They re-EQ so it sounds right for the target and sometimes other processing. They would then check the lacquer master.

Today the term still exists for the engineer and process of prepping the final mix for the target. Today that target may be TV, movie, MP3 player, home stereo, radio. live audio. They do a final tweak EQ, maybe some outboard gear so you master sounds good where it is to be played. A mastering engineer is all about GREAT ears.