Guitar Stereoization Problem

djt820 · #1 01-25-2009, 12:37 PM

Hey. Im having a problem with getting a good stereo sound with my guitars. For example, I record a riff and duplicate the track and pan each one to the L and R but when I play them both, it doesnt sound like stereo but if I play one individually, they are in stereo. What gives? Im using FL Studio and Adobe Audition if you need to know that as well.

Jeff Martinez · #2 01-25-2009, 12:48 PM

Are the individual tracks mono, or stereo? If you are panning duplicate stereo tracks, really hard, you are doing more mork than neccessary. You could just use the Pan/Expand effect on one track to spread it out. If you are duplication a mono track and panning it, you can really bring out the stereo effect by adding a tiny touch of chorus or delay to one side. That will "place' it in a different spot.

I'm not an expert, I've used this method to accomplish what I think you are trying to do. I use Audition, as well (I just got 3.0

). That being said, the best way to achieve a great stereo sound is to record the same part twice, and pan each take to opposite sides. The ever-so-subtle variations in your playing will add depth to the sound when put together. I've been recording all of my bass and guitar parts this way for about 10 years.

djt820 · #3 01-25-2009, 12:53 PM

Yes, they are originally mono. I really dont wanna record two different tracks though, it seems like a waste. I mix the whole thing in FL studio. I only record and edit the riffs in Audition. When I play only one track (thats panned), it sounds perfectly panned but when I play both at the same time, its mono.

Happynoj · #4 01-25-2009, 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by djt820

Yes, they are originally mono. I really dont wanna record two different tracks though, it seems like a waste. I mix the whole thing in FL studio. I only record and edit the riffs in Audition. When I play only one track (thats panned), it sounds perfectly panned but when I play both at the same time, its mono.

It's not mono - it just sounds mono because your ears are hearing identical things at the same time. If you were hearing something that was directly in front of you, then both ears would be getting the same sound, and its the same if you just copy one track and pan it - you need to make them sound different. Jeff's suggestions are great ones. Personally I favour the re-recording thing - it takes time, but I feel that it works the best.

djt820 · #5 01-25-2009, 01:01 PM

I know they are mono because, if I put one track ahead of the other, they are in stereo, it seems that if I play both tracks playing in sync with each other, it takes the stereo away.

phxlbrmpf · #6 01-25-2009, 01:09 PM

A "ghetto" way to solve this problem is using your recording program to make sure both parts aren't completely in time. Try making one of them a few milliseconds "late". If the effect doesn't kick in yet, try a few ms more. It won't sound as good as true doubling but at least the stereo effect will be noticeable.

D'oh, looks like I didn't read all of Jeff's post.

dmilt23451 · #7 01-25-2009, 03:13 PM

Of course they aren't stereo, technically you have multi-mono signal, the exact same information on both sides.

So when you play them back one at a time of course you hear the hard panning to one side, but when you play them back together with each one hard panned they "re-sum" themselves together in mono in your head...because you are hearing the exact same thing out of both speakers which would be the same leaving it on just one track and not panning it...the only thing you are doing is making it louder.

Recording doubled guitar parts is not a waste of time, if it was professionals would not be doing it. Or you could do as others have said and change one of the tracks a little

Doc Labyrinth · #8 01-26-2009, 10:43 PM

Stereo mic your amp! Place one mic close to the grill at a 45 degree angle on the left, and another mic farther out in the room, at least two or three feet, facing the grill at a 45 degree angle on the right. This way, the sound from your amp hits each mic a few milliseconds apart from each other. Pan them hard left and right, respectively, and viola, you have a stereo recording. Make sure when doing this you don't get any phasing. Keep each track in the middle and solo each, when combined the level should increase. Also, listen for distinct phasing, reminiscent of a phaser pedal. The rule of thumb is to have the second mic at least three times the distance from the amp as the first mic, but you should check with your ears either way.

nemo · #9 01-27-2009, 01:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by djt820

Yes, they are originally mono. I really dont wanna record two different tracks though, it seems like a waste.

Oh man, you are missing a real treat!

Record the second identical track, it is really worth it!
The subtle differences in timing and feel will make for a huge sound when both tracks will be panned to sides.
You will never achieve this with just one track splitted, even when moving a copied track a couple miliseconds.
Moreover, that would cause phase cancelation problems.

djt820, do it! You will not be sorry!

Check here, M. Jackson recording the same vocal track several times from different distances from mic, very interesting.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?gl=US&v=yt9IuqgbEaA

Jazz Ad · #10 01-27-2009, 01:59 AM

This video is great. A real pro with all the tricks in his bag.

sonic assassin · #11 01-27-2009, 02:51 AM

copying the track and panning it will just make it louder. you havent accomplished anything unless you effect them differently.

delaying them slightly can make it sound a little more "stereo" but it might cause phasing issues on some systems.

are you trying to accomplish a sound that will fill the mix? or sound like 2 people? sometimes they are the same. i ALWAYS have the guitarist double (or even triple) track the rhythm parts. they might not both get used.. but ive got the option. as said above, the slight inconsistencies in the tracks will make it sound a lot bigger. if you put 2 mics on a cab and hard pan them, you can get a bigger sound, but not necessarily a 2 person sound.

get me?

fretlessrock · #12 01-27-2009, 05:54 AM

Simulating stereo involves more than duplicating a mono signal on both channels. Phase is the main way we perceive stereo. Look around your plugins collection, or do a search, for a stereoizer plugin. That uses phase and delay to create a simulated stereo soundstage. Otherwise, you are just panning a mono signal across a stereo soundstage in your DAW... just like everyone else does every day. I guess I'm saying that you should either be panning a mono signal, or simulating a stereo signal, but not panning a simulated stereo signal.