Which interface, USB or Firewire?

thebrig · #1 03-20-2011, 11:35 AM

I have two laptops, both running Windows7 64 bit versions.

One is Intel Core i5-450M with 4GB Ram, but USB only and no card slot.

The other is AMD Thurion 64 x2 with 4GB Ram, but has Firewire.

Obviously, the Intel Core i5 is the more powerful machine, but I would be restricted to a USB interface.

The AMD Thurion 64 x2 does allow me to get a Firewire interface.

So the question is:

Which option would give me the best performance?

I will be looking to record at least 8 tracks simultaneously.

Budget up to £500/$800.

Samsound · #2 03-21-2011, 12:47 PM

Not sure about the latest crop of interfaces, but many USB units are limited in the number of simulateous I/o. They'll have 6 or 8 on the panel, but the fine print may state that several tracks bump down the sample rate. FireWire can handle it all. I've recorded 16 chans at 48/24 without so much as a hiccup.

seamonkey · #3 03-21-2011, 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thebrig

Which option would give me the best performance?

USB can do 8 at a time, no problem.
Firewire absolutely no problem
PCI is going to get you the most channels.

What kind of monitoring are you looking to do? Some of the fancy audio interfaces include a local monitor buss, some even with effects.

onosson · #4 03-21-2011, 05:44 PM

I'd go with the firewire option myself.

BigOldHarry · #5 03-21-2011, 05:48 PM

The problem with the firewire on so many laptops is that it uses that hinky little connector that does not include power... I find them to be highly unreliable. That said, firewire is clearly the better IEEE standard.

You can wait until Thunderbolt is out on all devices...

maxgrant · #6 03-22-2011, 08:59 AM

Firewire, for sure.

USB is one of the most abused standards out there. I don't know how many different connectors there are for the supposed "Universal" serial bus. I kind of see it as the cesspool of interfaces. Anyone can put any ol' crap in there.

Firewire is "smarter:" -- it doesn't have to use the host as a controller. Kind of like IDE vs. SCSI: SCSI drives were faster because most of the intelligence was on the drive/controller rather than being left up to the CPU to coordinate.

maxgrant · #7 03-22-2011, 09:01 AM

Here is some more supporting data as to why I would never use USB if I had firewire available:

Quote:

Question: USB 2.0 is faster than FireWire...right?
Answer: No, actually FireWire is faster than USB 2.0.

Question: Hold on...USB 2.0 is a 480 Mbps interface and FireWire is a 400 Mbps interface, how can FireWire be faster?
Answer: Raw throughput rating numbers alone don't tell the whole story, as explained below.

The throughput numbers would lead you to believe that USB 2.0 provides better performance. But, differences in the architecture of the two interfaces have a huge impact on the actual sustained "real world" throughput. And for those seeking high-performance, sustained throughput is what it's all about (reading and writing files to an external hard drive for example).

Architecture - FireWire vs. USB 2.0

•
FireWire, built from the ground up for speed, uses a "Peer-to-Peer" architecture in which the peripherals are intelligent and can negotiate bus conflicts to determine which device can best control a data transfer

•
USB 2.0 uses a "Master-Slave" architecture in which the computer handles all arbitration functions and dictates data flow to, from and between the attached peripherals (adding additional system overhead and resulting in slower, less-efficient data flow control)

Performance Comparison - FireWire vs. USB 2.0

Read and write tests to the same IDE hard drive connected using FireWire and then USB 2.0 show:

Read Test:

•5000 files (300 MB total) FireWire was 33% faster than USB 2.0
•160 files (650MB total) FireWire was 70% faster than USB 2.0

Write Test:
•5000 files (300 MB total) FireWire was 16% faster than USB 2.0
•160 files (650MB total) FireWire was 48% faster than USB 2.0

thebrig · #8 03-22-2011, 11:07 AM

Thanks for the very useful information Maxgrant.

It would make sense for me to take the firewire route judging by the stats you give, but the problem I have is that the Intel Core i5-450M with 4GB Ram, (USB only), is the more powerful machine, but it does not have firewire, and even by using firewire on the AMD Thurion 64 x2 with 4GB Ram, the performance is not going to be great, especially as I need to record at least 8 tracks at once.

Could someone who builds computers add firewire to my laptop, even if it means perhaps cutting a slot in the casing for it?

Georynn · #9 03-22-2011, 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thebrig

Thanks for the very useful information Maxgrant.

It would make sense for me to take the firewire route judging by the stats you give, but the problem I have is that the Intel Core i5-450M with 4GB Ram, (USB only), is the more powerful machine, but it does not have firewire, and even by using firewire on the AMD Thurion 64 x2 with 4GB Ram, the performance is not going to be great, especially as I need to record at least 8 tracks at once.

Could someone who builds computers add firewire to my laptop, even if it means perhaps cutting a slot in the casing for it?

Believe it or not, most good interfaces do the "heavy lifting" of the recording... and have offloaded as much processing as can be offloaded onto the interface and not the CPU, so the hardware performance difference between the two is not going to be worlds of difference, depending upon what software you are planning to use.

MNAirHead · #10 03-22-2011, 11:16 AM

I went on this quest.... ended up calling Best Buy Corporate.

-- Firewire is being phased out by both Sony and Appple... convergence is on USB3

A little depends on the use...

IN reality I own a $$$$$$$$$ interface.. have never had headroom or latency issues when also using my usb2 interface.

IF doing remote/lapotop (and not an $$$$ mac user)... how will you get your firewire?

MNAirHead · #11 03-22-2011, 11:17 AM

My newest interface will do both firewire and usb.. I've never needed to hook up firewire (plus most laptops don't really have full firewire).

seamonkey · #12 03-22-2011, 02:36 PM

Firewire has better specs, but it's like having a car that can do 250kpm but you only drive in the city.

USB 2 is not perfect and has limits, but most will not run into problems. Some older computers had 'hubs' instead of ports and suffered some performance problems.

USB 3 is better, new computers are shipping with USB 3 compatible ports, I don't know of any USB 3 interfaces yet.

I wonder at times why eSata has not been put to use for audio yet? Maybe it will. A jet engine in the city.

seamonkey · #13 03-22-2011, 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maxgrant

Here is some more supporting data as to why I would never use USB if I had firewire available:

You know it's an old article when it uses terms like "Master-Slave"

stflbn · #14 03-22-2011, 02:39 PM

There's also a lot of crappy and cheapo Firewire cards out there in machines... problem's not just with cheap USB Cards.

synterx · #15 03-22-2011, 02:42 PM

Without question I'd buy a Hybrid. MOTU 828mk3 or UltraLite mk3. $750 or $550 new.

I feel these new interfaces are really the safest bet. Why choose only one?

On the Mac side, Firewire will be okay for awhile - a new thunderbolt>FW adapter will come soon.

But for PCs, why not have the option?

gre107 · #16 03-22-2011, 02:48 PM

Get the USB if you want to keep it around for a while. Firewire is a thing of the past. It's not necessary anymore. Besides, who is making computers with it now? Barely anyone.
I've been using USB for quite some time now and have never had problems.

kevinmoore73 · #17 03-22-2011, 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MNAirHead

I went on this quest.... ended up calling Best Buy Corporate.

-- Firewire is being phased out by both Sony and Appple... convergence is on USB3

If Best Buy Corporate says it, it must be true!

I'm sure that Apple lets Best Buy in on all of their plans.

If what Best Buy says is true, then why do the brand new Mac Book Pros have FireWire and Thunderbolt (Lightpeak) connections yet no USB 3.0?

seamonkey · #18 03-22-2011, 03:08 PM

Apple will come out with USB 3.0 next year to sell its new model.
That's been their MO for years, they always hold back some technology for the next generation.
We'll see.

synterx · #19 03-22-2011, 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seamonkey

Apple will come out with USB 3.0 next year to sell its new model.
That's been their MO for years, they always hold back some technology for the next generation.
We'll see.

Sorry, it's usually the other way around. They don't hold it back, they bring it out first, and let vendors and everyone catch up. That's the truth.

They let USB3 slip by this time. Mainly because USB3 is not an Apple technology. Intel has not put USB3 on their chipsets yet.

This is all a moot point though. At the moment, you can only buy USB 2 or Firewire audio interfaces. Or both at once.

I just bought a hybrid MOTU, but if I had to choose? I'd buy a good USB just because it's "safest" for using on multiple platforms.

maxgrant · #20 04-19-2011, 08:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MNAirHead

I went on this quest.... ended up calling Best Buy Corporate.,

I am not sure they would actually know what the hell is going on. Best Buy is probably the least capable organization in the technology field. I work in a Fortune 500 IT department.

Quote:

IF doing remote/lapotop (and not an $$$$ mac user)... how will you get your firewire?

Buy a laptop with a firewire interface. I'm using one right now. You might try business-class laptops if consumer models don't cut it. They are usually more durable.