Into the studio....questions....

BigBud · #1 08-24-2010, 09:35 PM

Hello there! I am not a veteran of the studio. Headed to one this weekend. I have a few questions if you guys would be kind enough to educate me.....
First off the band I am with doesn't keep time well. I know, practice, practice, but I'm only the bass player and they don't listen to me. What exactly is the purpose of a Click track? Similar to a metanome? Do I simply ask the recording engineer for that? How is it set to the time of our songs?
Second, I was horribly disappointed with the last session going straight from my bass into the wall, which I assume means straight into the board. I am going to attempt to have more control by taking my Aggie 500 and Dr. Bass 1-15. I will set it up for the sound I want, and either have them mic me, or DI out the back of the Aggie........Sound right to do?
Also, fill me in on this, if I set the volume level to what is comfortable to me, will that be sufficient for the sound man throught the mic or DI? In other words, will he be able to control the volume HE wants while I am comfortable with what I am hearing out of my rig? I'm not into big-time volume, but I want the engineer to catch my sound.
What it is, is that I am very confused about what I have control over, and what the engineer tells me I have to do. Last time he had me turn all volumes full and run straight into the wall connect. Then it took him hours to "clean up" my bass lines, because there was a clicking nearly every time I touched the strings. This was not what I was hearing in the phones, and I had no control over my sound.....
Sorry this is so long, but any of you out there that have the time to give me some advice I would certainly appreciate it........Bud B

ljazz · #2 08-25-2010, 03:20 AM

I think the biggest issue here will be the time thing...... playing to a click is going to take some practice from your drummer. I've gotten around this in the past by doing a scratch track with just the vocal and either me, or a guitarist that can play to a click. Our drummer worked much better with that than the click.

As for clicking from your bass......Is it coming from your strings "tapping" the frets? If so, then try raising your action a touch, and be aware of it as you play. In my own case, I realized long ago that as I pluck through the string and my finger comes to rest against the next string, it will click. Also, try playing just a bit further back towards the bridge..... simply moving your hand just an inch further back can be enough. It's easy enough to get rid of if you're aware of it while tracking, and keep it to a minimum, both in quantity and volume...... a simple eq adjustment can get rid of it then (at least so that it's not audible in the mix).

If you're layering your tracks, then mic'ing your rig shouldn't be a big deal. If you're tracking live, and there's not enough isolation in the studio, then I'd run direct..... you can reamp later.

Emibass · #3 08-25-2010, 04:30 AM

you said, last time in the studio, the engineer had a hard time to eliminate the cliks. Is it because of the strings hitting the fretboard or your fingers touching the pick-up or it was because the track was distorted???
Cliks can be lowered with a simple LPF (low pass filter),
There is nothing wrong about going direct, most of the time bass is recorded like this and reamped after (if necessarry). the engineer has control over the listening volumes separetly of the recorded volume (so if you need more volume for listening, he can upper you volume without afecting the recording)

Click track is the metronome. You can decide to record without it, though you have to forget about editing parts.

pbass2 · #4 08-25-2010, 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Emibass

Click track is the metronome. You can decide to record without it, though you have to forget about editing parts.

Well, not entirely--you can still edit, it's just a LOT more time-consuming. Sounds like you guys SHOULD track to a click given that the band's time isn't solid--you'll end up with a much more pro sounding recording, but unfortunately you don't have much time to get up to speed on playing to one. Unless your drummer practices to a metronome/click and is used to that--doesn't sound that way though if he's not able to captain the time of the band as it is. I'd say go in there and start off trying to track to a click and see how it goes--you may have to experiment a bit with who hears it (just the drummer, the whole band, just you and the drummer, etc.) Of course, the drummer has to be able to play to it. Also, it doesn't have to be an ice pick in-your-ear click sound---have the engineer set up something that feels good for the drummer to play to--a click also with a tamborine hit or a shaker sound on two and four, whatever--it really can be anything, as long as the drummer can groove to it and stay on it (later as you get more used to it, you learn how to play dead-on vs. "around" the click, behind the beat, all that good stuff . . .)
That said, if the drummer really can't hang with the click and everything is feeling terrible and nothing is getting done, then I'd say bail on the click and just play the best you can. Then get back to the woodshed for the next one and get your drummer practicing to a metronome/click. Heck, get everybody practicing to one on their own at least a little bit.
Oh yeah, and most important: tell your bandmates they should listen to the bass player

**lowfreqgeek** · #5 08-25-2010, 11:04 PM

Bud,

If I recall from a previous thread, you're playing a MM SR5, right? When you say "all volumes full up", did you have the bass/mid/treble controls on full, too? If so, that would add a LOT of extra noise and create a real (and unnecessary) challenge for the engineer. I'm no "studio veteran", but I've had some studio experience both engineering and playing, and I'm going to be working in the studio with another band next Monday/Tuesday. If you're playing the SR5, or ANY active bass, keep your controls dead center. Flat. Except the volume control, which should be maxed (coil selection to taste). But EQ controls flat will give you the best, cleanest, clearest signal - unless you know EXACTLY what you're doing with them. If you need to EQ in post, it's simply a matter of adding/subtracting subtle (or not so subtle) EQ, rather than trying to "fix" anything. If you're using a passive bass, it's best to keep the volume all the way up and only use the tone control sparingly.

If you or the studio has a good DI, use it. I can't imagine a competent engineer NOT using a DI. I keep a Radial JDI in my bag just in case, but I also take an Avalon U5 to sessions (I've used both). Miking the amp is a good option, but will depend on how much isolation you need and other factors (time, studio's equipment, etc.). The DI on the Aguilar is very good, but keep it PRE-EQ. Again, the idea is to capture exactly what your bass sounds like on the recording, then post-process as necessary to get to what you want to hear. If you mic a cab, then go ahead and make the cab sound how you'd like and record that to a separate track so you can blend as desired.

The best thing you can do is give the engineer a signal he can't argue with. If you want to do something that means he'll have to spend extra time on it, he won't agree to it as readily. Give him something that sits in the mix without tons of EQ/editing and he'll probably use it and have a little respect for you, as well. That's been my experience, anyway. Along with that, EXCELLENT technique is a MUST in the studio. Often times we don't notice bad technique until we hear it in playback and wonder where it came from. You may have not noticed any problems while playing, but things could have been more obvious on playback. As others have noted, raising your action a bit might help. Or lower the pickup (perhaps the strings clicked on the pickup poles). But there's no substitute for *clean* technique.

As far as the click goes, it takes practice working with the click, both individually and as a band. I'm not as consistent about it as I should be, but I've spent years working with a metronome and making things groove to nothing more than a 1-2-3-4 or 2-4 click. It really pays off if you can make the click feel like part of the music. If you're not used to it, it WILL make things sound stiff and unmusical. If the band can't play to the click, it may be better to forgo it altogether. I've been to sessions where one member didn't have experience playing to a click and it took a while for him to "get it". He was a great live musician with good time, but the click threw him off. Once he got it, he was fine and things worked out well. But that's not always the case.

As much as I love playing live, I relish every minute I'm recording, whether at home or in a "real" studio. It's always a lot of hard work and can be extremely tedious, but the results of that attention are usually worth the effort - at least to me.

Have fun and don't get too nervous about it. Do your best and listen to what the engineer/producer have to say and try to learn from it. If something doesn't sound right, make sure you understand the request and give it a try.

lunarpollen · #6 08-25-2010, 11:08 PM

I know that when I am recording, I need for the sound that I'm hearing while playing to be how I want it to sound and not some dry direct signal fed back by the engineer through headphones.

**lowfreqgeek** · #7 08-25-2010, 11:35 PM

I should add that I am an minimalist when it comes to EQ. I use my hands to get the tone I'm after, playing brighter or darker with technique. That said, if I'm going for a "Pbass with flats" kind of tone, I don't take an active 35" scale modern 5-string with brand new Rotosounds...

BigBud · #8 08-26-2010, 07:44 AM

No, the SR5 stays home this time. Taking my only 4 string alternative, a Ric 4001. Engineer is gonna love me......can't get anything out of the neck pickup. I'll take my Spector Rebop along too (5 stringer). Maybe I'll suggest the band give the Click a try on our first song. Just to see.
I'll have to listen with alot more attention to my playing. Never noticed all the little things the engineer has problems with. But I have to confess that when he told me to turn up all volumes on the SR5 I turned all knobs to full, yea, all of em. Not smart on my part.......Thanks guys.....Bud B

T. Alan Smith · #9 08-26-2010, 08:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigBud

I am not a veteran of the studio. ...I am going to attempt to have more control ...

See the issue here? I take it your not paying for the studio time?

BigBud · #10 08-26-2010, 02:24 PM

No, the drummer is footing the bill. I was sweating it last time when I believed we were all splitting the $90 an hour cost. We did only 2 songs, 7 hours that included setup and recording of those 2 songs and maybe another 7 hours mixin and fixin. I was getting mad at the whole thing.....took the drummer one hour and 30 minutes to set up and get em tuned. Drummer and others HAD to take several smoke breaks. And we all took a nice lazy lunch break-while on the clock. Plus individual in-the-studio photo shoots that took way too long. This time I know it ain't my dime. I'll do my best when asked to.......for as long as asked to .......as many times as asked to. No financial pressure. Bud