Low power, small, low cost quality studio montors, do they exist?

[OhulahanBass]

Hi all, me and my roommate have a sweet studio set up in our livingroom with some gorgeous sounding KRK V8s, unfortunately we don't live alone and have other roommates to share the living room with.

I'd like to have a decent back up for private writing sessions in my room by my self. I don't want to pay KRK prices again, just want something that sounds good, can reproduce all frequencies at a modest volume, fit on my desk but most important have clarity and good bass. My roomate has all the fancy soft, in private I just use a Presonus Audiobox and Studio One software.

Again, they don't need to be loud just accurate. Do these exist?

[ahiddentableau]

If I was in your shoes, I'd look for nice little set of bookshelf speakers. Hi-fi speakers. 5" inchers should be plenty, but you can listen in hi-fi stores to get a better idea. They're basically the same as nearfields, but because they're not part of the "Pro Audio" market they don't command the same prices. Hook them up through your stereo and you're good to go.

And with respect, KRKs are not generally considered "top of the line" monitors, are they? I don't mean to say that they're no good, just that they're comparatively budget-conscious.

Good luck!

[Charling]

I'd second looking at some nice bookshelf speakers, though I'd personaly go for something a bit older, I swear by my acoustic research 18s for mixing at home and they can be picked up for very cheap.

That said, any decent speaker can be used to make great mixes if you know them well, the extra price on 'pro audio' does represent the extra research that has gone into making a suitable speaker for the slightly more discerning customer but as long as the gear is good it can be worked with.

re KRK's, even the more expensive v8's are not top line in terms of price, but certainly are in terms of where they are used! I am currently mixing a record at the incredible Rockfield studios in wales where there is v8's and NS10's in both studios, my home-base studio Leeders farm has the same setup and amongst a certain (large) group of studios they are one of the most common speakers to see alongside ns10s!

[mambo4]

are bookshelf speakers typically powered monitors, or is an amp also required?

[robass]

OP said he was looking for "accurate" - bookshelf speakers are going to be hyped somewhere, probably with scooped mids. IMO those would be the WORST to try to mix on. NS-10's are known to be honky in the mids, that's why some people like to mix on them.
Its too bad Event discontinued the ALP-5. Great sounding accurate powered speaks and could be had for under $200. I love mine.

[OhulahanBass]

Flat true response is a priority. I expect to loose lows in comparison to the the KRKs but anything would be a huge improvement from tiny Altech Lansing desktop speakers.

Any thoughts on M-audio AVs?

Again, I'm not looking into power houses. These would be for practicing, doing some editing, sampling, mixing at polite volumes when it is an un-reasonable time for me to rock through the V8s, like when my roommate wants to watch TV in the living room.

[dave_p]

musicians friend has a little set of fostex for 150 a pair

[Charling]

Originally Posted by robass

OP said he was looking for "accurate" - bookshelf speakers are going to be hyped somewhere, probably with scooped mids. IMO those would be the WORST to try to mix on. NS-10's are known to be honky in the mids, that's why some people like to mix on them.
Its too bad Event discontinued the ALP-5. Great sounding accurate powered speaks and could be had for under $200. I love mine.

I don't know, I've worked a lot on a hell of a lot of speaker systems and I'm beginning to wonder if 'accurate' even exists, practically anyway.

Hifi speakers can certainly be scooped, but so are the KRK V8's seen everywhere, massively. Sure they are accurate and represent sounds well and very clearly, but they are far from flat response! The opposite applies to NS10s of course, also far from flat response.

I think that if you know what you are doing then all you need is for a speaker system to put out a clear and precise picture of the audio, after that you just get used to where it (and where the room you are in) likes to boost/cut things.

That aside, that's why I mentioned the AR18s's, they come from and era when hifi speakers where a lot flatter, response wise, than hi fi speakers of today are. They kind of sound a little similar to ns10s, but a lot prettier and generally nice to listen too, not to much bass though, but there's enough there to work accurately with unless you are making dance music or dub etc One of the Lord-Alge brothers still uses AR18s sans a sub to mix on!

[spigmu]

Not saying that you can't work on bookshelf speakers, but as noted they really are designed to take a sound and hype it to make up for what the physics of the speaker can't provide. They can be all over the place sonically and you can get a lot done on them, but if you've got accuracy as a criteria it's not going to work.

I haven't used the M-Audios but I'm a big fan of the Roland monitors. Still have a pair of old MA-8's at home, probably smaller than you want, and have used the Edirol (same as the Roland) MA-15's happily. I find I can work in front of them for long periods and not get too ear fatigued. The worst thing about bookshelf speakers is not so much that they're not accurate but with some of them after two hours you just can't keep working.

[MrCincinnati]

Wharfedale diamond pro 8.2s are great for the $

http://www.google.com/m/search?q=wha...token=1fe5476e

[ahiddentableau]

I think the whole argument that hifi speakers can't be used for pro audio is bogus. Nearfield/bookshelf speakers are the same thing whether they are pushed in the direction of the "pro audio" market or not. Yes, they can be hyped, but as noted above, so are most "pro audio" monitors.

No set of speakers under, say, $500 is going to give the kind of clinical results that are so desirable here and that all the critics wax poetic about. The critical elements at play here are simple: can the speakers physically reproduce the sounds the listener wants to hear/evaluate? If yes, it's a matter of learning the particular response curve of the particular set of speakers.

IMO, Most of the time people in this situation pay a few hundred dollars more than they ought to for no reason apart from the mistaken belief/assumption that they require "pro audio" equipment. (The fact that a lot of musicians seem to insist on buying active speakers because they overestimate the difficulty and expense of buying a power amp is a close second.) It's kind of silly, and neither their mixes nor their bank accounts are any better for it.

[Jazzdogg]

For so-called near field monitoring, I use a pair of B&W 500 speakers and a subwoofer.

When others need quiet, I use headphones; Sennheiser HD590s and GK Ultraphones.

[MrCincinnati]

Originally Posted by ahiddentableau

I think the whole argument that hifi speakers can't be used for pro audio is bogus.

I agree with you to a point.. you can certainly mix on any set of speakers if you know them well and utilize referencing material that you know well.

But I think it's a bit far reaching to wipe all monitors under $500 out of the convo. There are definite and real benefits to using a solid pro audio monitor versus bookshelf. While a less expensive audio monitor will not give you the near perfection of a top shelf genelec, most of them do provide a clearer glimpse into the truth of the sound that is being played through them. In my experience with mixing (and I have professional experience) a home mix in a half suitable room with great monitors by a subpar engineer will sound no better most often worse than an above average engineer on a pair of earbuds in a coffee shop in a rush. But if you know what you're doing and you know your gear, pro gear (even under $500) more often than not paints a better picture than a set of Walmart bookshelfs.

[ahiddentableau]

Originally Posted by MrCincinnati

But if you know what you're doing and you know your gear, pro gear (even under $500) more often than not paints a better picture than a set of Walmart bookshelfs.

I guess this is where our opinions differ. My main argument is that $500 goes much farther when spent on the hifi speakers than the same amount spent on pro audio market. For the price of a pair of "walmart" pro audio speakers you can buy a pretty nice set of bookshelves. Obviously you have to do your homework to buy a speakers that are appropriately voiced--hifi speakers are often very coloured. But so are most budget nearfields. The most important consideration is the inherent sound quality of speakers, and to that end the former will be better than the latter. In most cases, a whole lot better.

[MrCincinnati]

Originally Posted by ahiddentableau

The most important consideration is the inherent sound quality of speakers, and to that end the former will be better than the latter. In most cases, a whole lot better.

I disagree and so would every mix engineer I know. The most important quality when mixing is how what you hear on your monitors translates to every other system. Secondary to that is sound quality. It just so happens that the two often coincide with pro gear, but not always. The ns-10, for instance is not a pleasure to listen to. But it is well known and accepted that if you get a mix sitting pretty on a pair of ns-10s it will translate well to almost every other sound system consumer or pro. The problem with buying speakers that are designed to sound "good" versus sound accurate is that the manufacturer has built in features and curves that cover up artifacts and other unwanted sounds, peaks etc. That's all good if you're only ever going to listen to it on those speakers. The problem comes when someone else is listening on a system that does not match yours.

[OhulahanBass]

This is why I listen to my mixes on our V8s, quality headphones and my car before sending it out. The goal of these speakers is best quality low volume monitoring I can find for around $150. I'm very happy with our V8s for mastering, just don't always have access to them and get bothered by headphones easily. I am not looking for book shelf speakers, I want powered to save space, clutter and need for a power amp. Also, I notice the V8s sound a bit different at low volumes, my hope is a set of smaller lower power speakers will have a better low volume response.

All my recording is for song writing and hobby. If we record demos we go to trained professionals. Also, plan on using them for personal practise.

Thanks for all the suggestions, I'm currently exploring A few suggestions. It looks like my desired monitors do exist. I think I will go with the pair that rolls off the least highs.

[4Mal]

If you have power then find some older used and hopeully not thrashed monitors. I picked up a set of Hafler M5's a few years back. I power them with an old NAD 2140. I can add in a Paradigm 8" sub for 2.1 but for most things I do, it isn't necessary. (lot's of acoustic stuff for me)

With your limited budget, used is your friend.

For what you're doing and your budget an old set of polk 5's would be OK. You would have to spend some time with them, your V8's, your phones, your car and some reference material to get your ears calibrated to them. This is going to be rough mix stuff anyway right ? I mean we all want it to be the best but few of us can live at Abbey Road so we learn to work with and around the constraints. I'll take clarity in the mid's and hi's over low end extension any day on my project monitoring system. The low end I can re-architect on phones or us the sub when necessary AND family is away...

BTW -I'm going to be in Denver doing a software school in April, week of the 18th IIRC, if you are gigging anywgere near the I25 corridor, drop me a pm as I'll be looking to un wind my brain at least one night. I'll be out at Breckenridge the week before hangin with family and friends if you guys do any of the spring ski schtick...

[spigmu]

Originally Posted by ahiddentableau

I think the whole argument that hifi speakers can't be used for pro audio is bogus. Nearfield/bookshelf speakers are the same thing whether they are pushed in the direction of the "pro audio" market or not.

Simply untrue.

Originally Posted by ahiddentableau

Yes, they can be hyped, but as noted above, so are most "pro audio" monitors.

Completely untrue. Pro monitors go for accuracy. Bookshelf monitors go for impressive sound for the size. You need to find a "bookshelf speaker" that doesn't, of which there are few and they come and go every year, and are rarer every year.

Originally Posted by ahiddentableau

IMO, Most of the time people in this situation pay a few hundred dollars more than they ought to for no reason apart from the mistaken belief/assumption that they require "pro audio" equipment. (The fact that a lot of musicians seem to insist on buying active speakers because they overestimate the difficulty and expense of buying a power amp is a close second.) It's kind of silly, and neither their mixes nor their bank accounts are any better for it.

No one says you can't mix on home stereo speakers. I did on my first home studio for years. But If you don't want to wonder why your mixes don't sound good on other systems you'd be advised to get a set of low end reference monitors. If you scope ten random sets of the best sounding bookshelf speakers under $500 you'll find frequency anomalies all over the place. Try it. Funky low end boosts to compensate for size, sizzly top to compensate for cheap or no tweeter, missing mids due to hyped top and bottom...It'll sound great at home and completely different everywhere else. Again, if you don't need to play your mixes elsewhere for other people on other systems it doesn't matter. If you do, buy accurate speakers whatever they are, but you won't find them at Best Buy. You can get decent reference monitors for $300, so the cost is moot.


For writing and listening get speakers you like the sound of at the volume you'll be using them. For mixing get reference speakers. If the mixing isn't critical, just for putting stuff down for yourself then anything will work.

[OhulahanBass]

Originally Posted by spigmu

Simply untrue.
For writing and listening get speakers you like the sound of at the volume you'll be using them. For mixing get reference speakers. If the mixing isn't critical, just for putting stuff down for yourself then anything will work.

Small, powered and accurate as possible are the main goals hear.

So far M-audio AV's and Fostex are in the running. I wont be paid for another couple weeks, so I still have time to research and figure things out.

Bookshelf speakers are not in the running, I don't want to bother with getting a power amp for this, just want some small near fields that wont take up to much space or piss off the roommate watching TV down the hall.

My recordings are heard by others, 5 other mates and some people with respected opinions. Also, I love my filters and like to hear accurate representation of what they do.

The AV's and Fostex can be had <$150, so this is the realm of competition. I'm not looking for anything close to as loud or expensive as our V8s.

[Toptube]

I'm gonna toss in a vote for the Audioengine A5.