Making a CD. Volume issues?

I-Love-Ratm · #1 04-06-2011, 04:00 PM

Hey guys,

I'm currently doing the final mixes for my bands CD. My question is what's the easiest way for me to get the volume levels on each track the same or roughly the same? I'm using Pro Tools 8 LE if that makes a difference.

Cheers
Mike

MonkeyBass · #2 04-06-2011, 04:04 PM

Take it to a mastering studio.

Barring that go here Massey Plugins Inc. and get the free demo of the mastering limiter. Or even better, buy it. The demo lasts forever but won't remember your settings. It's a great limiter, just as good as the Waves stuff if you ask me. And better than the Maxim plugin that comes with Pro Tools.

MonkeyBass · #3 04-06-2011, 04:05 PM

... oh and create a new session, import all your mixes and listen back and forth between them to get the levels the same.

That's the easiest way. But pay for mastering if you can. It's worth it.

pnut166 · #4 04-06-2011, 04:08 PM

I get good results in Cubase just looking at the fader graphic.

olalo · #5 04-06-2011, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MonkeyBass

... oh and create a new session, import all your mixes and listen back and forth between them to get the levels the same.

That's the easiest way. But pay for mastering if you can. It's worth it.

+1.
Also, after they are leveled, you could limit the peaks with a harsh limiter and then normalize the tracks to increase volume.

I-Love-Ratm · #6 04-06-2011, 04:31 PM

I'm a student and this EP is part of a college project so I'm not gonna bring it to a mastering guy. Thanks for the tips though guys!

ishouldbeking · #7 04-06-2011, 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MonkeyBass

... oh and create a new session, import all your mixes and listen back and forth between them to get the levels the same.

That's the easiest way. But pay for mastering if you can. It's worth it.

+1 on the A/B'ing. If you can, you'll wanna A/B each track to each of the other tracks, thinking not just about overall volume, but compare if one sounds bassier, brighter, darker, etc. They don't need to sound exactly the same -- different songs can call for different mixes -- but consider if one song sounds weird next to the rest for any of the above reasons.

MonkeyBass · #8 04-06-2011, 05:05 PM

NEVER NORMALIZE!!!! If you've already limited it why normalize it? You're just adding noise.

Jalfrezi · #9 04-06-2011, 05:06 PM

Speaking about just volume, if they have vocals you should try to balance them all with the vocal in mind. When I went to a mastering engineer that's what he said he did.

MonkeyBass · #10 04-06-2011, 05:10 PM

Yeah, EQ them to where they're about the same, get the vocals about the same, don't normalize and don't hit the limiter too hard. You'll add all sorts of nasty distortion if you go crazy with the limiter. I usually prefer -6 dB TOPS on a limiter. But, I'm a guy that actually likes my music to have dynamics. When I worked at a mastering studio they got most of the volume using compression and just BARELY used a limiter. It's hard to do that with plugins though.

Charling · #11 04-06-2011, 06:50 PM

Don't worry too much about normalisation, it turns up the noise but also turns up everything else by exactly the same amount! The signal to noise ratio is untiouched and THAT is what matters.

That said, there is no need to normalise either before or after limiting/compression, it will do nothing useful. In fact normalisation has very little use in mixing as well, its a simple yet specialised process that is only of use in the occasional situation, if you've done enough mixes you'll know when

I'd agree with get all the waveforms in the same project, listen to and even look at them to see whats going on and adjust accordingly. Compression is noce because you normally have a bit more control over what it does, followed by maybe a little limiting, or maybe not, or maybe neither etc etc. It all depends on context!

limiting is just compression with a high ratio, it is a big part of mastering but should be treated with respect, it can squash the life out of a mix real quick. Compression as well but it will move around with the dynamics a bit more, or at least allows you to tailor them specific to the song more with the extra control's they afford.

If you are sending it to mastering then leave off ALL bus processing, no compression etc. Its worth noting that in a good studio a good engineer will very often compress the master bus BEFORE sending to mastering to get the track dynamics how THEY want it, leaving the mastering engineer with less to do. However, this is only to be done if you REALLY know what you are doing, and a good mastering engineer will soon start asking questions about what you were thinking if you do it badly!

In future, it can help to have a good meter plug in on the pro tools master bus (or use the desk meters if mixing outboard). During the mix you can have a target range, and keep referenceing it throughout the mix to make sure you are not getting carried away. The technique takes time to learn, many of your first mixes will soon end up going way above the meters and you'll have to restructure everything halfway into the mix! But get it down and you will soon learn healthy, reserved mixing practice.

Some fancy meters like the waves Dorrough show average and peak levels at the same time, so you really know what you are aiming for in a mix. Mix like that and all your tracks will come out sounding at the same level, safely away from clipping and compressed the right amount as well (if you REALLY get the hang of it). The K-Sytem expands on this, but is a little more in depth to set up...

Finally, to the OP, a track has an rms rating, which is kind of like average level. Its not one value for the whole track, it will change on quiet sections etc but you can tell a lot by what sort of RMS your track is hitting at the loudest point. -14Db RMS is healthy but loud. -18 Db RMS is nicely dynamic but quieter, -10 RMS is a smashed rock mix and -6 Db is a completely obliterated pop mix, and to my ears sounds HORRIFIC but some pop music goes this far or further in a vain attempt to get the listeners attention! many good metering plugins will display the rms.

+1 for referenceing other tracks and eqing. Its an easy way to get masters sounding better BUT you want to aim to learn what you have to do to make your tracks balance with your favourite recordings and next time acheive that in the mix instead. Thats the way to a great sounding recording. Its the best compliment for a mix engineer for a good mastering engineer to say 'I didn't have to do ANYTHING with the mixes except get it to the right level!'

EDIT - damit, ended up with another essay post! Oh well, hope some of its useful to someone!

spigmu · #12 04-06-2011, 10:54 PM

We talking about just using the stock PT plugins, right? This is also since you aren't taking it to mastering. Set up your mixes so that you have several db of headroom always. Keep in whatever plugins you have used to attain your mix, however use compression and limiting if it is creating the sound you like (as an effect) but take them out if they are there as volume tools. Bounce your mixes down (stay 24 bit, no dither) Reimport them into a new session with a stereo track and a master fader and set them up in their playing order. Put the best eq you have as an insert on the track followed by (or following) your best compressor. Keep them in bypass. Put Maxim on the master fader and set the output to -3 db. Engage automation on the threshold and master output. Run the first song to find a very general setting for the Maxim threshold so that it barely licks it and set the threshold there.

Then go to the meat of each song and automate the volume of the track at each song so that you get a good listening experience jumping from one to the next. Keep checking the Maxim so that nothing hits it too much. If it does, back off the threshold of the Maxim overall. Then you need to check the transitions. So play the endings of songs going into the next one to see how they work, and make adjustments to taste, even compromising a bit on the overall level comparison of the two songs if you feel that setting is wrong for the transition levels. If you need to make any slight adjustment to a song that seems a hair too dull or bright, use the eq on the track by automating a setting and then returning it to bypass. You may find that a tiny bit of automated eq will help glue a particular transition together.

When you've finished this you may find that the Maxim isn't being hit right all the time for the different songs even though you have established a good listening experience level perception-wise. At this point automate the its threshold to accomplish this, and automate its output level to compensate for these threshold changes. This is why you don't set the output for max yet, because you might find you need to raise a song above the others to get the perception of being equal, and if you start at the top you have nowhere to go. Drop the cursor down sequentially over the whole CD to verify that it's a good listening experience. I wouldn't jump from the 1st to the 7th or 2nd to the 9th because it's not too relevant at this point and you might start hearing things that aren't there : ) Just be concerned about how the songs flow into each other. Then raise the output of the Maxim globally so that if you put in automation the highest output is -.1 (instead of the working setting of -3). Bounce the songs to disk, 16 bit 44.1 with dither, either one at a time or as a single file which you can open and make the separate "mastered" song files from. Use your CD burning app to set the transition times and burn.

That's not the *easiest* way : ) but just a good way, one of many.

Samsound · #13 04-07-2011, 03:55 AM

FYI, Bob Katz' standard is to knock down no more than 3dB with each stage of gain reduction. He'll use a variety of tools such as compression, multiband compression, and limiting, but also money is no object for him. You can still try to achieve the same thing with stock plugins as a start. Place each stereo mixdown on its own track, and place the plugins on each track, except your final limiter. Each song will need different settings. There are other ways of doing it using automation or recalling settings, but don't want to write a novel here. Always A/B with the uneffected track and ask yourself, "Am I making it sound better?"

Electricblue · #14 04-07-2011, 03:58 AM

Open the tracks up in audacity, select the track, then amplify. it will make it as loud as it can but without clipping.

spigmu · #15 04-07-2011, 08:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Electricblue

Open the tracks up in audacity, select the track, then amplify. it will make it as loud as it can but without clipping.

No, you don't want to do this. If you do this to ten songs you'll have ten songs that aren't necessarily at the same perceived volume, and you have nowhere to go when they're already processed for maximum loudness. If you do this with a ballad, a punched out band song and an acoustic song you won't be able to put them side by side.

Ottsworth · #16 04-13-2011, 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by I-Love-Ratm

Hey guys,

I'm currently doing the final mixes for my bands CD. My question is what's the easiest way for me to get the volume levels on each track the same or roughly the same? I'm using Pro Tools 8 LE if that makes a difference.

Cheers
Mike

Compress them to ∞:1 so there's no dynamic range them turn the volume up till it clips. It will sound identical to any pop song on the radio today!!!