Making insert cables...suggestions?

**BurningSkies** · #1 05-04-2009, 11:19 AM

So, I'm clean on the hows and whys of making TRS to 2xTS insert cables, but I'm trying to figure out the actual cabling I need...it needs to be narrow gauge audio cabling to fit into the TRS end-piece... Anyone have suggestions of what type and size cable would be good for this? I've been buying supplies from Redco in the past, but that's been for regular speaker and instrument cable. I'll want to make my own as I like to have them a certain length and I like to do my own soldering, etc.

Any help or suggestions on what kind/brand of cable and a supplier you like would be appreciated!

i_got_a_mohawk · #2 05-04-2009, 11:57 AM

Never made my own, so a bit of speculation, but would XLR cable not work, at the Y-junction splitting from that to two seperate instrument cables? *shrugs*

I've got Van Damme cables for my studio interconnects (dont need many) and they are good and well regarded as far as Im aware.

**BurningSkies** · #3 05-04-2009, 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by i_got_a_mohawk

Never made my own, so a bit of speculation, but would XLR cable not work, at the Y-junction splitting from that to two seperate instrument cables? *shrugs*

I've got Van Damme cables for my studio interconnects (dont need many) and they are good and well regarded as far as Im aware.

While it would...it would be messy. the way it should be is 1/4" TRS to both instrument cables, within the same TRS housing (using narrow gauge cables so they fit through the cable opening) then each of the cables terminates in a 1/4" TS. I've got a working wiring scheme for it, and its how a studio friend of mine has told me to go...Its just finding the right cables to do it. I know that Canare makes a small gauge instrument cable, I just don't know if it's the stuff I should be using. I'd like to know before I shell out for a pile of it.

JustDavid · #4 05-04-2009, 05:20 PM

I could be way wrong, but I believe George L (DIY no-solder cable source) has thinner wire.

**BurningSkies** · #5 05-04-2009, 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JustDavid

I could be way wrong, but I believe George L (DIY no-solder cable source) has thinner wire.

Thanks, I've seen George's stuff and think its interesting, but I really need something that's more of a 'traditional' cable structure and something that I can solder, so I can use standard connectors, etc.

fretlessrock · #6 05-04-2009, 08:24 PM

Look at Canare GS-4. Same build as GS-6, but half the diameter.

**BurningSkies** · #7 05-04-2009, 08:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fretlessrock

Look at Canare GS-4. Same build as GS-6, but half the diameter.

A-ha! I've spied out the GS-4 but couldn't tell what the size of the cord was. Thanks! That should work just fine for what I'm looking to do!

pbd · #8 05-04-2009, 09:07 PM

Hi,
2 channel snake would work real well, you may need to strip the outter jacket a bit to get it to fit into back housing of the trs plug but you can put shrink tube over that if needed. The other end of the cable you would just tail off as long as you need it to be and put on your xlrs or ts at that end.

Any quality mic cable will work, again if you have trouble getting the cable to fit into the back housing of the trs you can alway drill out the back housing hole a bit to make it larger and/or strip back the outer jackets of the cable and heat shrink them.

just some suggestions,
Todd

**BurningSkies** · #9 05-04-2009, 09:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pbd

Hi,
2 channel snake would work real well, you may need to strip the outter jacket a bit to get it to fit into back housing of the trs plug but you can put shrink tube over that if needed. The other end of the cable you would just tail off as long as you need it to be and put on your xlrs or ts at that end.

Any quality mic cable will work, again if you have trouble getting the cable to fit into the back housing of the trs you can alway drill out the back housing hole a bit to make it larger and/or strip back the outer jackets of the cable and heat shrink them.

just some suggestions,
Todd

Cool! Thanks Todd! And it does give me something to consider. Right now I've just dropped a few hundred on some new speaker and other cable, so in the next week or two I'm going to consider my options and then go from there.

pbd · #10 05-05-2009, 06:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BurningSkies

A-ha! I've spied out the GS-4 but couldn't tell what the size of the cord was. Thanks! That should work just fine for what I'm looking to do!

The outside diameter on the GS4 is a very small 4mm a full 2 mm smaller than GS6. I will check with my tech and see if that would be a good cable for insert cables.

more to come,
Todd

**BurningSkies** · #11 05-05-2009, 07:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pbd

The outside diameter on the GS4 is a very small 4mm a full 2 mm smaller than GS6. I will check with my tech and see if that would be a good cable for insert cables.

more to come,
Todd

Thanks!

fretlessrock · #12 05-06-2009, 06:09 AM

There are two challenging things about making your own insert cables: getting two small cables through the shell, as you note, and making a solid connection without causing a short. The T and R lugs are often small and close together, so plan on paying a lot of attention to dressing the cable ends, using heat shrink, doing a very tidy soldering job, minimizing heat application, and so on. I've built a few using regular Neutrik TRS plugs and it is possible, but it is always a "nail biter". When you are tightening the cable clamp (back part of the shell) it wants to twist the cables at first, and could tear your hard work apart if you aren't careful. A tiny bit of lube on the rubber boot can help, but if you do, do it after you have the boot in place, not before so you wipe it all over the cables!

Some options: You can either mod the clamp by enlarging the opening, shrink the two cables together for an inch or so at the plug end, try a Switchcraft/GH style plug with a crimp clamp and larger barrel, or some combination of these tweaks.

Also, snake cable is a good choice for size but it makes a stiffer cable. If you can get a length of it it is definitely worth a try. I have dealt with Redco in Bridgeport, CT, and they have been a great resource for both parts and information. I've even sent potential work to them if I felt that the job was better handled "by the pros".

**BurningSkies** · #13 05-06-2009, 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fretlessrock

There are two challenging things about making your own insert cables: getting two small cables through the shell, as you note, and making a solid connection without causing a short. The T and R lugs are often small and close together, so plan on paying a lot of attention to dressing the cable ends, using heat shrink, doing a very tidy soldering job, minimizing heat application, and so on. I've built a few using regular Neutrik TRS plugs and it is possible, but it is always a "nail biter". When you are tightening the cable clamp (back part of the shell) it wants to twist the cables at first, and could tear your hard work apart if you aren't careful. A tiny bit of lube on the rubber boot can help, but if you do, do it after you have the boot in place, not before so you wipe it all over the cables!

Some options: You can either mod the clamp by enlarging the opening, shrink the two cables together for an inch or so at the plug end, try a Switchcraft/GH style plug with a crimp clamp and larger barrel, or some combination of these tweaks.

Also, snake cable is a good choice for size but it makes a stiffer cable. If you can get a length of it it is definitely worth a try. I have dealt with Redco in Bridgeport, CT, and they have been a great resource for both parts and information. I've even sent potential work to them if I felt that the job was better handled "by the pros".

Thanks, I really like what I've gotten from Redco. The also ship quickly and efficiently and good communication.

I don't mind some 'detail' work...I actually find it to be a meditative activity and also a bit of problems solving, etc. Also, as it's not really that expensive, I think I'll make a few sets, see how it goes then if it's worth it, I'll make more. If not, I'll outsource!

4Mal · #14 05-07-2009, 11:05 AM

Put the narrow end of the TRS Male 'barrel' on the old drill press and you get quite a lot of additional hole to play with. Don't have a drill press ? Mine is a benchtop model from Sears and came from CL under $50 - the thing tales up very little space and it's a pretty useful device ...

any machine shop can do it in aout 2 minutes ...

**BurningSkies** · #15 05-07-2009, 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Mal

Put the narrow end of the TRS Male 'barrel' on the old drill press and you get quite a lot of additional hole to play with. Don't have a drill press ? Mine is a benchtop model from Sears and came from CL under $50 - the thing tales up very little space and it's a pretty useful device ...

any machine shop can do it in aout 2 minutes ...

Cool tip! Thanks!

fretlessrock · #16 05-07-2009, 07:35 PM

My Rockwell agrees!

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Mal

Mine is a benchtop model from Sears and came from CL under $50 - the thing tales up very little space and it's a pretty useful device ...

Zooberwerx · #17 05-07-2009, 07:42 PM

Insert cables? I just bought a handful of the stupid things at Guitar Center. Is there any advantage to building your own from components?

Riis

**BurningSkies** · #18 05-07-2009, 10:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zooberwerx

Insert cables? I just bought a handful of the stupid things at Guitar Center. Is there any advantage to building your own from components?

Riis

The satisfaction of a job well done?

The ability to make them any size or configuration I want?

Save a few bucks along the way?

Nick Kay · #19 05-08-2009, 12:01 AM

I never bothered with insert cables. I just picked up an old patch bay off of craigslist and rewired it into a TRS > 2xTS splitter. I don't think I'll ever need more than 24 inserts and I get to use standardized cables. Yay!

Zooberwerx · #20 05-08-2009, 06:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BurningSkies

The satisfaction of a job well done?

The ability to make them any size or configuration I want?

Save a few bucks along the way?

Points taken! I found some satisfaction in just being able to do the patches correctly, the only size available was 6', and they were ~$7 each.

I like the patch bay suggestion but that's beyond my scope of expertise...well, for now anyway.

Riis