Mics in a different "room"

peddles · #1 01-22-2012, 07:23 PM

Hello how are you doing?

I've been having this problem for a while now. When recording my bass mic'd with a sm57 and a sm7b no matter what it sounds like the mics are in another room in terms of sound level coming into the interface and overall intensity. Today I placed an additional 2 mics to the speakers and still had the same problem. here is what I have going on:

Swr workingpro 400 head
swr workingpro 4x10

Sm57
sm7b-using 2
beta 52

through a focusrite saffire pro 40 into protools 9

I am placing the mics around the cone and am just not getting any results. The sound coming from the amp tight and intense but the playback is anything but

ugly_bassplayer · #2 01-22-2012, 07:25 PM

this may get you started.

Ins & Outs Of Gain Structure

spigmu · #3 01-22-2012, 08:13 PM

Hard to say, but it could be a number of things. Need more info : )

The first and most important thing is, before you start changing the recording setup, what are you listening through to hear this playback sound that is different and roomy? Your bass amp sounds great for bass but what you're monitoring through may not. Bass reproduction is tough not only for a good sound but because there is such an opportunity for anomalies during playback for several reasons. The big one is, and this might sound overly simplistic, but if your playback space is roomy sounding, it will cause this, and you'll never hear it as sounding roomy playing mixed music because A) a soloed bass will resonate the room and a mixed song at a normal volume won't, and B) a mixed song will mask this effect of the room because there is so much sonically going on right in that spectrum where this "roominess" does still occur. Bass is, sadly for us, depressingly hard to play back nicely for us on home monitors in our recording spaces even if the file actually sounds fine. There are areas in the room that become "bass traps" and otherwise, so that every few feet you move it sounds totally different. (Naturally, if you're on headphones that doesn't matter, but it takes a very expensive headphone to NOT make a loud, soloed bass sound not mediocre when pushed)

Is it the monitoring or the actual recorded signal? Are you on a rehearsal space or recording studio? Or a recording area of your house? More info, so we don't go barking up the wrong trees : )

peddles · #4 01-22-2012, 09:54 PM

I'm pretty sure it's the actual recorded signal that sounds distant. I'm recording at home in a pretty long, horizontal room with glass doors pretty much everywhere(not the most ideal set up but it works...) All the mics were all the way up to the grill and still sounds distant. I'm listening to it all through the saffire interface with bose quiet comfort headphones. It's really perplexing...the drums i record all sound great and clear through the same set up

seamonkey · #5 01-22-2012, 10:06 PM

Try just one mic
Two mics is more than 4x harder to get right.
Or better, record direct, listen, then maybe re-amp the track and play with the mic placement then.

ugly_bassplayer · #6 01-22-2012, 10:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seamonkey

Try just one mic
Two mics is more than 4x harder to get right.
Or better, record direct, listen, then maybe re-amp the track and play with the mic placement then.

Yep, you might have a phase problem with the 2 mics. Try just one.

JimmyM · #7 01-23-2012, 12:56 AM

Agreed. Got a little overkill going on. Simplify it to one and put it dead center in the middle of a cone.

sonic assassin · #8 01-23-2012, 02:17 AM

or take your 2 tracks that you already have and phase align them.

headphones really arent the best way to mix anything at all.

and make sure your cab isnt coupling with the floor and giving you a false impression of whats coming out of your amp. put your ear where the mic goes and then listen. too many people EQ standing over the amp looking at the knobs.

peddles · #9 01-23-2012, 06:18 AM

you're right, could be a phase issue, I will try this after work today and see the results. I will also check that out sonic, and I know it sucks to mix with

saving up for some real monitors

ddnidd1 · #10 01-23-2012, 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimmyM

Agreed. Got a little overkill going on. Simplify it to one and put it dead center in the middle of a cone.

+1

BurningSkies · #11 01-23-2012, 02:45 PM

Beyond taking it down to one mic, I'm going to suggest also turning up the amp a bit. It sounds like you're getting more of the room reflections than you are of the sound right off the speaker.

A microphone certainly isn't like the human ear, it picks up all sorts of sounds that our human monkey brains are used to filtering out...in this case a lot of the reflections in a room like yours that are getting back into your mic. you can either try to deaden that room a bit or you can try to isolate the amp a bit. Or both.

spigmu · #12 01-23-2012, 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimmyM

Agreed. Got a little overkill going on. Simplify it to one and put it dead center in the middle of a cone.

++1. Don't use more than one track of this while trying to sort out what doesn't sound right, because, even the dreaded phase issue aside, what doesn't sound right could be 3 great sounds combining to form a bad one : )

peddles · #13 01-24-2012, 11:53 AM

I still haven't been able to test out with just 1 mic, but the purpose of at least using two mics was to get my effects channel and my clean channel. If all else fails I could try a di solution and get on with it, but I really want this mic set up to work. I will get back to this as soon as these lazy butts wake up.

spigmu · #14 01-24-2012, 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by peddles

I still haven't been able to test out with just 1 mic, but the purpose of at least using two mics was to get my effects channel and my clean channel. If all else fails I could try a di solution and get on with it, but I really want this mic set up to work. I will get back to this as soon as these lazy butts wake up.

Makes sense. But you still need to eliminate the variables when troubleshooting why it doesn't sound the way you're expecting. Keep the mics and DI at the ready, but check them out one at a time to see if there's one path that's a problem or if the combining is.

BurningSkies · #15 01-25-2012, 08:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by peddles

I still haven't been able to test out with just 1 mic, but the purpose of at least using two mics was to get my effects channel and my clean channel. If all else fails I could try a di solution and get on with it, but I really want this mic set up to work. I will get back to this as soon as these lazy butts wake up.

Your effects channel and clean channel are both going through the same cab, right? So what's two mics/channels giving you that you're not getting from one mic?

fokof · #16 01-25-2012, 09:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by peddles

I've been having this problem for a while now. When recording my bass mic'd with a sm57 and a sm7b no matter what it sounds like the mics are in another room in terms of sound level coming into the interface and overall intensity.
through a focusrite saffire pro 40 into protools 9

If you talk about level , like other said , it's a question of gain structure. Google can be your friend.

You say "sound like is in another room" I think : latency.
Maybe it's the latency you're hearing that gives you the impression of "another room"
(Just asking , don't know if you are aware of this)
If so , lower the buffer in your DAW or if you have a MOTU interface (or similar) , mix your playback with Cuemix (no latency)

peddles · #17 01-25-2012, 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BurningSkies

Your effects channel and clean channel are both going through the same cab, right? So what's two mics/channels giving you that you're not getting from one mic?

Oh, doh. I forgot to mention (probably a very important thing to leave out...) I also have a separate amp head powering a bottom 4x10. I've been micing the top for more treble and effects sound and the bottom for more bass. I also tried single mics the other night and i found it was actually a combo of poor mic placement and the phase issue. So problem somewhat solved, now I just need to adjust the mics so there is less phase going on.

I guess my next step is di boxes. i was looking at the eden di/preamp and the sansamp one as well. How does that work with an interface? Is it possible for me to direct in after i run my effects? For instance, i run fuzz+delay+modulation and run it into a di would that work with a di box like those?