Mic's vs DI?

Venom of God · #1 01-10-2011, 04:12 AM

Just curious as to your thoughts? We've almost finished the drum tracks for our EP (a home recording job), which means I'm up next.. originally I was just going to DI out of my SansAmp and into our Presonus Tube Pre then into the computer, but my sisters boyfriend (who owns a music shop) has offered to lend me an Ampeg SVT-VR while we record.. my dream head! I really feel like I shouldn't pass this offer up, but realistically will I get a better tone DI'd?

I have a Lab Systems 410HLC cab and mic wise I would probably use our Shure Beta kick drum mic and a Rode NT1A, though we also have a few 57's, two NT5's and an Audix D6.

What would you do.. go with your heart or your head?
Thanks!

steve_rolfeca · #2 01-10-2011, 04:18 AM

Neither. You've got an interesting possible mic pairing. Accept the offer, and then use your EARS...

FWIW, my bet would be on the DI'd track sounding better than the VR.

Venom of God · #3 01-10-2011, 04:35 AM

Interesting good or interesting bad, haha? I just thought that would be good to capture all the lows with the kick drum mic and then I figured that the NT1A would be good for colouring the sound more, if that makes sense?

I'm open to all suggestions and criticism here as we're still very much learning when it comes to recording! Do you think the DI would sound better simply because there is less that could go wrong and it's simpler?

Joe.shaffer · #4 01-10-2011, 04:57 AM

I would try both and see which you like better. Use a few different mic combos too.

Hellbastard · #5 01-10-2011, 05:01 AM

Which sansamp do you have?

I would use both. If you got the deluxe, send a DI channel to the interface, then use the Sansamp parallel output to the Head, then look for the sound you want and mic the cab ta different channel or pair of channel. Then decide which recorded track you like better or maybe a blend of all.

MNAirHead · #6 01-10-2011, 05:16 AM

After doing tons of studio work.. I'll leave you with the following.

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Never pre judge your signal chain.

I can't tell you the number of times a band has requested my SVT and 50s Pbass... in the studio a $60 garage sale bass and DI often records better.

Even between DIs the signal choices need to be mated..... The industry standard is a Countryman 85... I've had many times this records thin...

I have about 10 DIs.. I have a master sheet documenting how a signal chain was created.... Over the course of time, seems as if Basses and DI should be paired.

My favored bass recording tone is directly from an active bass to the Trident board..

------

Overall --
Sending a clean DI signal is the goal -- then alter it after the recording ... not pre alter.

The biggest reason for this is to ensure you have a solid spectrum mix.... "forcing" tracks will create mud and pressure vs a sparkly spectrum.

sonic assassin · #7 01-10-2011, 05:29 AM

id take any mic over just a DI. DI + mic can often work.

the D6 is INCREDIBLY scooped. bad news for the master track. throw in a 57 for the mids and you've got 2 mics to mix. assuming they are phase aligned, you can balance them like EQ.

use the sansamp too. why not. you can have 5 signals. no one is stopping you.

nonrappingJZ · #8 01-10-2011, 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sonic assassin

the D6 is INCREDIBLY scooped. bad news for the master track. throw in a 57 for the mids and you've got 2 mics to mix. assuming they are phase aligned, you can balance them like EQ.

use the sansamp too. why not. you can have 5 signals. no one is stopping you.

The Beta 52 is really scooped, too.

The Sansamp was a fail for me. We did a lot of experimenting to figure out what worked with my bass/amp/band and after doing several channels of bass on a couple of tracks, we found something that sounds "right" for our band/songs.

Charling · #9 01-10-2011, 07:01 PM

Yeah, if you must use a kick mic on bass then I'd fill in the gap in the mids with a 57. whatever you do take the DI signal as well. Its very common to blend mic and DI signals and you can always reamp the DI track later as well. just be aware the DI will get to the DAW quicker, so you may have to delay it just a little bit so it lines up with the mic tracks, we're talking milliseconds!

Ditto don't pre judge your signal chain, there are so many variables and its so dependent on the band as well. DI only could be a bit rubbish for a rock band, but be perfect for some smooth funk (broad generalisation alert).

MNAirHead · #10 01-10-2011, 07:05 PM

The important reminder is that mikes also have their own response.

Many times it's good to lay down some test tracks.. some di.. some mikes... different combos etc.

brotherbassj · #11 01-10-2011, 07:09 PM

I really like the way an avalon u5 works with my warwicks for recording. I used it and 2 mics and the mic tracks wound up getting scrapped............my 2 cents..........

Charling · #12 01-10-2011, 07:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brotherbassj

I really like the way an avalon u5 works with my warwicks for recording. I used it and 2 mics and the mic tracks wound up getting scrapped............my 2 cents..........

A very fair 2 cents but also a generalisation, U5's are great but plenty of times I've scrapped the U5 track and kept the mics

Its always about context, the drum, guitar, keys tracks will all govern how the bass needs to sound and vica versa.

JimmyM · #13 01-10-2011, 07:39 PM

i'd do a di track and an svt track and decide from there. and for the di track, i'd run the di out of the speaker out of the svt instead of in line with the bass. you have to run a speaker with it or you'll blow up the amp, but a tube amp di'd through the speaker out totally rocks. you have to have a di that can do it, but i hate clean untreated di's and this way makes it tolerable.

then stick a 57 on one of the speakers, and blend each track to taste. done.

johnboy65 · #14 01-10-2011, 07:42 PM

Run them both and then either decide which is better or mix them together for the best of both.

prd004 · #15 01-10-2011, 07:45 PM

Whatever you do, don't use the kick mic! "Bass" mics are not for bass guitar, they are designed to capture the woof of the bass drum and the tick if the beater against the head, virtually all other frequencies are scooped out! You need mids for your bass!

If you're not tech savvy with recording equipment, go with the DI. Even any people who are trained in sound tech go with DI all the time!

nonrappingJZ · #16 01-10-2011, 07:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimmyM

i'd do a di track and an svt track and decide from there. and for the di track, i'd run the di out of the speaker out of the svt instead of in line with the bass. you have to run a speaker with it or you'll blow up the amp, but a tube amp di'd through the speaker out totally rocks. you have to have a di that can do it, but i hate clean untreated di's and this way makes it tolerable.

then stick a 57 on one of the speakers, and blend each track to taste. done.

Amen to that.

Which DI does a good job in this application, Jimmy? I've been using several, and they've all been sub-par.

I've found that a couple of mics (Shure SM7 or EV RE20) in front of any of my cabs does the job, and there's no need for phase-alignment or mixing or anything. My 2 cents...

liquid sunshine · #17 01-10-2011, 09:11 PM

i pretty much always blend di with a mic. last time i recirded with my vr i ended up using just the single 57 mic channel. if you di out of the head you will have preamp tubes in your signal too.

cableguy · #18 01-10-2011, 09:24 PM

I don't have a whole lot of experience in this but when I have recorded I have used a sansamp with good results. Depending on how many tracks you have available for bass you have a few options. My first few times I recorded direct with the sansamp I used only the tube emulation out which is like painting yourself into a corner I found out. Since then Ive used a effected signal and a dry signal out of my sansamp. If you have the options of adding mics and enough tracks go for it. Let your ears and that of the engineer be the judge. Good luck.

JimmyM · #19 01-10-2011, 09:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nonrappingJZ

Amen to that.

Which DI does a good job in this application, Jimmy? I've been using several, and they've all been sub-par.

uh oh...i'm sure you've tried the countryman type 85 and/or the radial jdi and jdv. i was going to say i had really good results with all of them, but now i'm afraid

Quote:

I've found that a couple of mics (Shure SM7 or EV RE20) in front of any of my cabs does the job, and there's no need for phase-alignment or mixing or anything. My 2 cents...

re 20's my favorite bass cab mic that isn't over $1000.

Venom of God · #20 01-10-2011, 11:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimmyM

i'd do a di track and an svt track and decide from there. and for the di track, i'd run the di out of the speaker out of the svt instead of in line with the bass. you have to run a speaker with it or you'll blow up the amp, but a tube amp di'd through the speaker out totally rocks. you have to have a di that can do it, but i hate clean untreated di's and this way makes it tolerable.

then stick a 57 on one of the speakers, and blend each track to taste. done.

Thanks for all the replys, I don't want to create a wall of text here so I'm just going to directly reply to this one for now as it jumped out at me the most..

The only DI's we have are my SansAmp and some simple Behringer thing (as I said, it's our own home studio so no engineer and limited equipment), would I be okay to go from the speaker out directly into that? As long as I had my 410 plugged in as well? This idea intrigues me as I love the idea of having all the tubes in the power amp cranking and getting that vintage Ampeg grit, though I also need to be careful because this amp is going to be right off the showroom floor and it will go back then when I'm finished, so I can't do any damage to it.

A 57 didn't even really seem like an option to me, as I hate them on guitar amps and thought they'd have little bass response due to the proximity effect roll-off, but I'll give it a go. I wasn't aware that the Shure beta we have is really scooped, so I'll pass on using that now. I take it that no one thinks the Rode NT1A is a good idea, then?

We play rock btw, check my sig if anyone is interested in a listen (the track On The Run was recorded by us in our studio half a year ago, bass was recorded out of my SansAmp BDDI and into the valve pre).

Thanks again to everyone who has replied so far, really useful stuff!