Mixing bass for songs

Bassom · #1 10-31-2011, 05:35 PM

I was wondering how to properly mix bass into a track?
Whenever I have tried in the past I can get it sounding really good through headphones but then you can barely hear the bass at all through speakers and vice versa.
How do you mix so that it sounds good both ways?

Govier966 · #2 10-31-2011, 05:40 PM

Your going to want to mix in some treble or mids, most computer speakers don't produce a ton of bass.

TripleDouble · #3 10-31-2011, 05:44 PM

It is challenging. Using a song you like the mix level and the sound of the bass in as a reference is very helpful, just try to adjust your bass levels and tone to mimic this using compression and EQ. Good audio monitors with at least a 6 inch driver are needed as well.

sonic assassin · #4 10-31-2011, 05:55 PM

your mix will only sound as good as your monitors and room allow. both of these will change the perception of your mix in a negative or positive way.

i would never recommend mixing music in headphones. ive tried it. not worth your time. a proper mixing environment is key. doesnt have to be particularly expensive. my monitors were 300 dollars. they are GIANT 8's. a lot of people get away with 5's and 6's. i just needed the extra bass response so i dont over-do it. smaller monitors dont represent LF content the same. getting that right is a matter of experience.

jimmyjames · #5 10-31-2011, 06:17 PM

Volume also plays a big role in it....

Look up the Fletcher-Munson curves and also the Fourier series analysis curves.

LiamCohl · #6 10-31-2011, 06:20 PM

its more about quality than size of drivers, I have heard some unbelievable mixes out of friends studios using 4.5-5.5 inch cone adam monitors. Those were in smaller but very well designed and treated rooms that any monitor bigger would actually make it harder to mix in those rooms.

chris4001asat · #7 10-31-2011, 06:30 PM

Bass has to sound good in the mix. Don't solo the bass and adjust the eq's. Adjust the eq's with some of the song playing. What sounds good solo'd, might get lost in the mix.

Tom_RCJ · #8 10-31-2011, 06:34 PM

Many studios also use high end monitors to find their sound and then check it on "cheaper" speakers. Most even have crappy speakers wired right into their system that they can turn on or off for a quick A-B check. I agree with Sonic Assassin that mixing in headphones is counter productive, but -checking- your mix in headphones can be very helpful, seeing as music is very often listened to on iPods or iPhones these days.

Mixing is a severely under appreciated art. It takes a lot of practice and hours of trail & error just to start getting the hang of it. So basically just keep trying and don't give in to frustration.

OOZMAN · #9 10-31-2011, 07:08 PM

I (and a few other, better recording people I know) always cut anything below 50hz (for bass and kick drum, 100-120hz for guitar etc), anything under that frequency doesn't add anything to the mix and means your speakers will be wasting power for nothing. Of course this will lower your final mastering dB too.

If you recorded with a mic from a cab, this will be less of a problem because the cab will have already cancelled out most of those freq's.

chris4001asat · #10 10-31-2011, 07:36 PM

Don't know if this is true or not, but I remember hearing that Billy Squier (remember him!?) actually ran leads from the studio console into his car so he could hear the mixes there!

uhdinator · #11 10-31-2011, 07:46 PM

It's called experience and learning the limitations and exaggerations of your monitors and the interaction with the room they're in.

Monitors that are weak in a given freq range (say 40-60 hz) will result in bass heavy mixes when played in phones that exaggerate bass. Monitors that are over exaggerated in the high freqs will result in muddy mixes when played back in phones with a flat top end.

Experience will show you that when you can just hear the bass in your tiny 5" woofers that it will be enough when you play it back on your stereo or car stereo that has a sub woofer.

Charling · #12 10-31-2011, 07:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chris4001asat

Don't know if this is true or not, but I remember hearing that Billy Squier (remember him!?) actually ran leads from the studio console into his car so he could hear the mixes there!

Hehe, yeah, that doesn't surprise me! Still a lot of musicians I work with like the car test, or more often these days the cheap earphone test, to check mixes I have done for them. I always indulge this, as even though I'm prefectly happy with my judgement on my monitors the client needs to hear it on a system they know well, thats normally when they say 'wow its sounding great!'. NORMALLY, that is

sometimes they pick up a real issue with the mix, often they pick up on an issue that doesn't exist or doesn't apply to the their particular track, thats when mix psychology comes into play!

The scooped sound that many like on bass doesn't really help it get heard in a mix unless the speakers have a lot of lows. You've got to REALLY get to know the mids, and work out where the bass works ABOVE the 150Hz area and somewhere below the 2k one. Thats where the prescence lives. As stated you MUST eq the bass with the full track playing. Get a notch eq and move it around untill it settles in a place just below the lows of the gtr (that should be around 250/300 give or take for genre). Adjust the gtr to line up nicely with that etc. for a clean sounding mix make sure its a distinct gap, if its a filthier track then overlap is good but it'll make the track sound a lot less distinct down there.

The low end of a mix is critical, just like piano chords the lower you go the more careful you have to be with where you place the notes, further up there is a lot of overlap naturally and you have to learn how to put certain instruments in focus without killing the others.

Aside from the all powerful eq, plugins like waves maxx bass add upper harmonics to a bass signal without drastically effecting the eq, so they sound bigger on small speakers. Worth using but only if you already have a good grasp of how to mix, otherwise you'll just flood the track with crap

Mixing is a dark art, very easy if the band plays well with good sounds and good recording, VERY hard with bad players and/or bad sounds. Good luck!

jarrydee · #13 11-01-2011, 05:45 AM

NEVER only use headphones! and if your room is not set up right the bass can be very tricky...if your room has to much bass reflection going on you will by nature lower the bass in your mix and then you come out with a NO BASS mix, or just the opposite! Also if your bass is getting berried in the mix make sure you carve out a space for it, do a cut at 80 where your kik usually sits, and a cut from your kik where your bass is sitting at...You could also try side chaining the bass with the kik! Good luck and remember, never just use cans for mixing, they are good for checking vocal ups or downs but not for a full ,mix session!

Bassom · #14 11-01-2011, 06:08 AM

Thanks a tonne for all the replies guys!
A lot of great information here, shall make the most of it!

jimmyjames · #15 11-01-2011, 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bassom

Thanks a tonne for all the replies guys!
A lot of great information here, shall make the most of it!

no worries, make sure you check out those curves I mentioned, they talk about perception of different frequencies...

Johnpjm · #16 11-01-2011, 11:05 AM

I always compress my bass, only a little though, it helps sweeten the sound up, as well as evening it out. For most situations, I remove the super low frequencies, since I usually boost those in the kick drum. I also make a copy of what I've recording on the bass, so I have two identical, and I pan them hard L and hard R. This frees room for the kick drum.

Hope that helps!

DuraMorte · #17 11-01-2011, 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnpjm

I also make a copy of what I've recording on the bass, so I have two identical, and I pan them hard L and hard R. This frees room for the kick drum.

With all due respect, no it doesn't.
A signal that is duplicated, and hard-panned L/R is identical to the same signal panned center, assuming your pan laws are set up properly.

Tom_RCJ · #18 11-01-2011, 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charling

Mixing is a dark art, very easy if the band plays well with good sounds and good recording, VERY hard with bad players and/or bad sounds. Good luck!

Very true. To expand on that point; there's an expression in recording that goes; "crap in - crap out".

Well, we use a slightly harsher word than "crap", but you get the point. When I record a track I'm always very mindful of my playing. I make sure the dynamics are clear but under control. When I look at a wave image of a bass track, it looks smooth without any bumps (or as few as possible) and you can see where the dynamic changes are by how the wave file fattens up of slims down (not too much though).

Fixing something in a computer is often wasted time. It's better to record a track with a near perfect sound and do very little to it afterwards. This often involves recording your bass (or other instrument) thru a pre-amp of some kind, like run it thru an LA-610 or something. Universal Audio preamps might cost about 1500$, but it'll be one of the best investment you'll ever make. There's other great choices for preamps out there as well.

Then of course there's the argument on digital recording. The hardware you use to convert your analog sound into a digital file has a big influence on your final sound. Are you using a low cost Behringer USB interface box or a top of the line Apogee? Are you recording in 24-bit/192kHz? If you have a golden sound, pushing it thru a crappy conversion will do bad things to it, no mater how good you are at mixing.

A single one of these elements make a noticeable difference. Put them all together and you can completely change to quality of your recording.

OOZMAN · #19 11-01-2011, 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DuraMorte

With all due respect, no it doesn't.
A signal that is duplicated, and hard-panned L/R is identical to the same signal panned center, assuming your pan laws are set up properly.

Yep. The only way that method would MAYBE benefit bass guitar was if you record them twice. I don't think other methods of 'stereofying' (like you would other instruments) would work so well with BG.

jarrydee · #20 11-01-2011, 11:48 AM

Also try using a nice hi-pass filter on everything, even if you cant hear it there is noise in the lower frequency on most tracks and, after 20 tracks you can end up with a mess of crap on the bottom, use a hi-pass lightly and this should free some room for your bass to be a little bit clearer! Also as already mentioned you could split your bass into 3 tracks and eq them hi-mid-low to get a specific sound, but I have never had to do it yet! I love the statson channel plugin for its filters, they sound sweet!