Moving from mac to windows

[pbasswil]

Originally Posted by My name is Mudd

...A Windows machine, properly config'd and maintained, will serve as a DAW platform just as easily as a comparable OSX machine.... an OSX machine is not better than a Windows machine overall, and/or vise versa...they're simply different, and with compatible software and a knowledgeable user, the end result will be the same from either machine.

Hm. After 20 years of Mac, I quite like my new Samsung laptop (not for heavy-lifting, but light music play).

There's a wide choice of PC hardware out there -- everything from the crappy, lowest possible price consumer level Dell & HP, to the best quality, cherry-picked components in premium boxes.

I have to say though, I should have payed more attention to Windows version. I got Win8 64-bit -- and man, as far as I can tell, they haven't got the bugs worked out yet. The sound spontaneously disappears about once a day; the taskbar forgets it's supposed to auto-appear/hide (these both clear up after a reboot). Scary looking cryptic alerts are popping up -- after which I run their suggested diagnostic tools, which invariably report that everything is just fine and dandy.

I've only had the machine for 5 days! (It's well protected with Bit-Defender, and I haven't altered anything myself). The system is also updating itself during reboot surprisingly often.

I love the fast boot and sleep/wake of Win8; but for serious work, I'd now opt for an up-to-date version of Win7. I think it's going to be a while before 8 is rock solid.

[mizu]

Originally Posted by joebingo

I'm not sure what you're doing to your windows boxes to make them so unstable though.

The boxes themselves are quite stable, it's the ASIO+USB mix that causes most problems. With different interfaces, too.
I'm not saying serious sound processing can't be done on a Windows platform, it surely can, but IMO you'll need a properly set up and optimized dedicated machine to do it.

[joebingo]

Originally Posted by pbasswil

Hm. After 20 years of Mac, I quite like my new Samsung laptop (not for heavy-lifting, but light music play).

There's a wide choice of PC hardware out there -- everything from the crappy, lowest possible price consumer level Dell & HP, to the best quality, cherry-picked components in premium boxes.

I have to say though, I should have payed more attention to Windows version. I got Win8 64-bit -- and man, as far as I can tell, they haven't got the bugs worked out yet. The sound spontaneously disappears about once a day; the taskbar forgets it's supposed to auto-appear/hide (these both clear up after a reboot). Scary looking cryptic alerts are popping up -- after which I run their suggested diagnostic tools, which invariably report that everything is just fine and dandy.

I've only had the machine for 5 days! (It's well protected with Bit-Defender, and I haven't altered anything myself). The system is also updating itself during reboot surprisingly often.

I love the fast boot and sleep/wake of Win8; but for serious work, I'd now opt for an up-to-date version of Win7. I think it's going to be a while before 8 is rock solid.

That's a point I hadn't thought about actually. If making the move to Windows, uninstall Windows 8 and install Windows 7 on the machine.

Originally Posted by mizu

The boxes themselves are quite stable, it's the ASIO+USB mix that causes most problems. With different interfaces, too.
I'm not saying serious sound processing can't be done on a Windows platform, it surely can, but IMO you'll need a properly set up and optimized dedicated machine to do it.

Fair enough, ASIO+USB hasn't ever caused any major problems for me (it's what I use while mixing). Firewire is more stable with the right chipsets, but USB won't be a problem until you're tracking multiple high bit rate tracks.

[pbasswil]

Originally Posted by photogdude

...
How are you hooking up your bass to your pc, and are there any latency issues?

Delayed response, sorry.

Oddly enough, I don't record! I do bass practice stuff -- playing along with drums, sometimes manipulating rehearsal tapes to learn song forms, retuning or slowing mp3's, etc.

The other thing I do is mess with vst synth plugins -- all midi, no audio.
This is all with the built in sound card, via the headphone jack. Midi key controller direct into USB.

So I can't tell you much about latency. Except to say that with a laptop soundcard, even MIDI doesn't respond completely immediately. :^/

Sad to say, my 5-year old Macbook Pro's built-in hardware had less MIDI latency than this new, mid-range Samsung. :^(

[SquierJazz72]

I just went from a Linux based studio to Windows. Not that I was having trouble under Linux. As a former IT guy, I am quite familiar with both. I just happened to get a newer computer for my studio rig, and it had Windows already on it, so rather than reformat and install Linux, I just kept Windows on it and downloaded the same Open Source programs I was using under Linux. Plus it does open up a few options for stuff that isn't available for a Linux platform. So even though I changed the OS underneath, my actual studio setup didn't change much at all.

I have Audacity, Hydrogen Drum Machine, and the free version of a DAW called Studio One. I'm also evaluating Mixcraft 6.

If I need to move up, I'll either buy the full Mixcraft, or the professional version of Studio One, depending on what I like better, as I learn. Still fairly new to the recording process myself.

[pbasswil]

Originally Posted by SquierJazz72

I just went from a Linux based studio to Windows. Not that I was having trouble under Linux. As a former IT guy, I am quite familiar with both. I just happened to get a newer computer for my studio rig, and it had Windows already on it, so rather than reformat and install Linux, I just kept Windows on it ...

What version of Windows did you have on it?

My Samsung has Windows 8 64-bit, and so far it is _not_ solid. Things go spontaneously wonky -- frequently. Sound disappears, programs quit themselves, internet connection drops.

It's hard to get anything done without interruption.
If the troubleshooting apps don't fix the issue, a reboot usually does. But man it's aggravating.

I'm really surprised that it's still so flaky -- such a major product, months after world-wide release and massive beta testing before that.

Anyway, I'm switching to Win7 today.

I'm curious: Is anyone using Win8 and finding it all right?

[My name is Mudd]

I have friends in Germany and England that are basically happy with Win8 in business environments, but the Euro version is not quite the same as we get here. IMO, Win8 tries to be too many things across too many platforms and, as such, fails to often.

[kozmikyak]

On my 4-year-old Dell Latitude laptops, running Windows 7, I get low latency and stability. BUT!

* some audio interfaces come with crappy drivers that are impossible to get running based on the chipsets of your machine/other software installed/phase of the moon.

* EVERY Windows 7 box out there has a CRAPLOAD of scheduled tasks set to fire off between 10:00pm and 4:30am, and these tasks are mostly to fire up the network and send data to Microsoft. Network drivers can cause dropouts in audio. Networking should be entirely turned off (disabled at the interface level at least, if not disabled in BIOS) when recording. I just use a USB wireless adapter for my laptop and turn off all networking in BIOS. Remove the adapter and there's no networking.

Before I figured this out, I had a stable recording laptop that went unstable if I ever tried to record rehearsals and shows during nighttime/early-morning hours.

* EVEN if you have network adapters disabled, many of your programs will try phoning home to see if there are updates available, every time you use them, or as part of the scheduled tasks mentioned above. Want to turn off ALL of those phone-homes.

* You don't want realtime virus scanning while recording.

* You want a separate hard drive to store audio files, on a different controller than the system drive. And you don't want it to be a USB drive. That pretty much limits you to a machine with dual firewire ports on separate controller chips, running a hard drive and a Firewire interface. Or one of the laptops that allow you to insert a second hard drive. My Latitude E6510 does this.


Casual use of Windows for audio recording doesn't need all this, but once you start chasing low latency and high track counts these things are essential. It _can_ be done, and you _can_ end up with a system useful for both audio and non-audio tasks, but it's going to take some work.

Download a DPC latency checker to see whether your machine's setup is prone to audio dropouts. It's a good back-of-the-envelope check as to whether audio problems will arise.

It's too soon to know how Windows 8 will behave.

I use Reaper and Ableton Live 8 and Adobe Audition on these machines, and they all work nicely.

[SquierJazz72]

What version of Windows did you have on it?

Mine is still running XP, which I never had much trouble with, although I am not pushing mine as much as some of you might be. My setup is pretty simple. We have two Win 7 laptops in the house, which seem stable enough. I know nothing about Win8.

[P-oddz]

My question:
Why would you need to get rid of the current Mac/GarageBand setup?

Obviously you're looking to get a new computer, but if the current setup is working well for you, why try to replace it? If you wanted to upgrade from GarageBand and get a new computer in the process, my thoughts are that you would not be searching in the $100 and less territory. So the answer of seeking a cheaper NEW solution, doesn't (to me) outweigh the option of keeping the tried and true OLD solution. Especially if you've found that it works for you so well that you want to find a similar replacement.

My thoughts would be to keep the old setup for recording purposes, and buy your new computer without having to worry about updating or purchasing a new recording process for the new system. That way you have two computers - one for leisure, one for recording.

[seamonkey]

Originally Posted by SquierJazz72

I just went from a Linux based studio to Windows. Not that I was having trouble under Linux. As a former IT guy, I am quite familiar with both. I just happened to get a newer computer for my studio rig, and it had Windows already on it, so rather than reformat and install Linux, I just kept Windows on it and downloaded the same Open Source programs I was using under Linux. Plus it does open up a few options for stuff that isn't available for a Linux platform. So even though I changed the OS underneath, my actual studio setup didn't change much at all.

I have Audacity, Hydrogen Drum Machine, and the free version of a DAW called Studio One. I'm also evaluating Mixcraft 6.

If I need to move up, I'll either buy the full Mixcraft, or the professional version of Studio One, depending on what I like better, as I learn. Still fairly new to the recording process myself.

+1
As long as you can run the apps you want to run, the OS doesn't really matter. Once you click the icon and the DAW is up and running, you won't know any difference on any OS these days.

[SquierJazz72]

one for leisure, one for recording.

That's pretty much my solution. My main desktop, from which I am typing this, is a 2.1 Ghz AMD, running OpenSUSE Linux.

My old recording PC was a 1.4Ghz P4, 512 MB, running a stripped down Ubuntu. I got a chance at a 2.4 Ghz, 1 GB RAM computer, so I kept my current desktop as is, made the better PC my new studio rig, and set the old rig aside, as a spare, just in case.

[aasti3000]

I wouldn't move to a PC simply because after about a year or two they become sluggish and slow rendering. I'm a former PC user and had tons of headaches. IMO, they become dinosaurs in no time where as Macs stay strong, fast and last longer than PC's. Greatest switch I ever made. I'd think twice about the move.

[photogdude]

Originally Posted by P-oddz

My question:
Why would you need to get rid of the current Mac/GarageBand setup?.

The (possible) move has nothing to do with garageband or a mac platform. I mostly just practice and casually play and record stuff, so I'm just looking at options. I've got a fairly good handle on the plus's and minus's of both systems for all my needs. Except the daw stuff on pc, hence the first question.

But I really do like the fact I can build a screaming gaming\imaging/recording pc and get a windows tablet for the same price as just an iMac, or a new macbook

[azureblue]

Originally Posted by kozmikyak

On my 4-year-old Dell Latitude laptops, running Windows 7, I get low latency and stability. BUT!

* some audio interfaces come with crappy drivers that are impossible to get running based on the chipsets of your machine/other software installed/phase of the moon.

* EVERY Windows 7 box out there has a CRAPLOAD of scheduled tasks set to fire off between 10:00pm and 4:30am, and these tasks are mostly to fire up the network and send data to Microsoft. Network drivers can cause dropouts in audio. Networking should be entirely turned off (disabled at the interface level at least, if not disabled in BIOS) when recording. I just use a USB wireless adapter for my laptop and turn off all networking in BIOS. Remove the adapter and there's no networking.

Before I figured this out, I had a stable recording laptop that went unstable if I ever tried to record rehearsals and shows during nighttime/early-morning hours.

* EVEN if you have network adapters disabled, many of your programs will try phoning home to see if there are updates available, every time you use them, or as part of the scheduled tasks mentioned above. Want to turn off ALL of those phone-homes.

* You don't want realtime virus scanning while recording.

* You want a separate hard drive to store audio files, on a different controller than the system drive. And you don't want it to be a USB drive. That pretty much limits you to a machine with dual firewire ports on separate controller chips, running a hard drive and a Firewire interface. Or one of the laptops that allow you to insert a second hard drive. My Latitude E6510 does this.


Casual use of Windows for audio recording doesn't need all this, but once you start chasing low latency and high track counts these things are essential. It _can_ be done, and you _can_ end up with a system useful for both audio and non-audio tasks, but it's going to take some work.

Download a DPC latency checker to see whether your machine's setup is prone to audio dropouts. It's a good back-of-the-envelope check as to whether audio problems will arise.

It's too soon to know how Windows 8 will behave.

I use Reaper and Ableton Live 8 and Adobe Audition on these machines, and they all work nicely.

I have both Mac and PC,and use GB and Cubase, plus Audacity. I have a G5 tower and a Mac Intel 17" laptop, both use a firewire interface. USB 2.0 audio interface for the PC. All use ext. HD's, cased in USB and FW interfaces, and formatted for cross platform use. The Macs "just work". I prefer to work on them - they are,to me, a microwave oven - you turn them on, and and they work with no fuss. And "fuss" is money out of my pocket. The PC is "naked". I stripped it down to bare essentials, removed anti virus software, disabled all "phone home" apps, and disconnected it from the 'net. And I turned off BT, too. It runs only two apps, that's all. It's reliable that way, but windows whines when it can't get on the 'net. When I am done with a project, THEN I go on the net and check and update SW, but it is never used for web browsing or for email. If I have to DL something I am not sure of, I do it on the Mac, then move it over to the PC via a flash drive, so I can make sure there is no attached infection.

But there is no comparable free SW to GB, that is as easy to use. The fact is, the basic audio files, if all recorded at the same bit rate, etc., are the same, no matter what platform you use. I have Cubase on all my computers and import and move audio around, from many different origins, so, as long as you have good drivers and a stable computer, basic recording is the same on all platforms.

But, frankly, my 2006 late model 17" MB Pro, with an 800 FW ext drive and a FW400 interface, and running two ext monitors, is plenty for me. So, as advice, don't overbuy. The latest and greatest is not always the best..

[sammyp]

All the pc daws have stripped down versions for about $100.... They will all work very well. Sonar, cubase essential, reaper , studio one.... Take your pick!

Anyone who can't get their head around a little software learning curve should go back to the cassette 4 track. I don't know how extremely easy garage band is but damn.... They're all easy if you put a bit of effort in.

Seriously folks! We have the power now in software programs that revivals multi million dollar studios of the 80s etc. give or take some bad ass vintage hardware, pre amps, mics etc.... But you get the point? Are we really gonna whine about a little studying?



Finally, the notion that windows is too unstable for serious recording is profoundly rediculous. It's all I've ever used for years with various desktops and laptops ... Windows xp, vista , 7 with sonar and pro tools.

No serious issues ever!

I'm pretty sure the unstable windows chatter died with xp!

Good luck all!

The rewards of learning a daw well as well as learning how to mix professionally are immeasurable!

It took me about 5 years of light Internet study and practice recording and mixing before I took on a project that led to radio tracking a couple of my masters across Canada country radio!"

It's within anyone's grasp who wants it!

Sorry for the rant! The modern daw has amazed me to no end for the last decade!

[My name is Mudd]

I think that most of the troubles people experience with Windows machines is in part due to (pardon my bluntness here) the user not maintaining the machine properly, especially those who try to migrate from a Mac (which pretty much is almost a maintenance-free system, at least when compared to a comparable Windows system). Note that I say this as an owner of both PC and Mac systems right now; as someone who had built custom PC systems for side money for over 10 years; and as someone who believes that the average person would be better off owning a Mac and its user-friendly interface, if it weren't for the sometimes-horrendous price differences between the two systems.

Yes, Windows boxes can be unstable at times, especially those from Big Box Builders (HP, Dell, etc) that come loaded down with pre-installed programs like six different greeting-card-builders and stripped-down Norton virus-wares, but a little time spent removing the unwanted crapware and simple regular maintenance (keeping up with MS system updates, defragging your drive(s) once a month, running apps like AdAware or Spybot, and not installing a dozen different 'useful' toolbars) will go a LONG way in keeping a Windows box running smoothly.

[Floyd Eye]

Originally Posted by photogdude

I pretty sure i'm going to go to a windows environment, my 2 questions are,

1. is there a garageband equal for windows for less than 100 usd?

2. And can i use my apogee jam to hook into a usb on a windows device, if not than what?

thanks

I predict you will move back to a Mac environment.

[seamonkey]

Originally Posted by aasti3000

I wouldn't move to a PC simply because after about a year or two they become sluggish and slow rendering. ...

Ridiculous

[rubbadubdub]

This mac versus pc thing will run on and on and..... yawn..... I think it comes down to being sensible about how you expect to use your pc. I have a friend who asked me to set up ableton for her on a Vista based (yuk) pc. It was extremely frustrating as as soon as I turned the thing on I got endless updates trying to install. It reminded me that I had done quite a lot of pre preparation before using my pc's for music production. I dont have any problems with reliability despite having networking capability enabled nor with running decent anti virus. I keep my registry clean though and dont install (and uninstall) endless crap and if I do uninstall something I use Revo uninstaller. It's a good idea to run a seperate pc just for music even though recording with pc's is a lot less messy than it was in the early days of 'native' computer based recording. You can probably buy two pcs for the price of a mac?
As I said before, Macs are 'industry standard' partly due to the investment people made in protools hardware way back. There were a lot of conflicts with drivers and hardware in the early days of pc recording and a lot of tweeks necessary to get a reliable daw. Not so critical now so the divide between the pc and Mac worlds is more about wether you invested in Macs as a pro or wether you want to subscribe to a more 'exclusive' club.
Moving to pc was for me worth the learning curve as the money I saved went towards buying some better mics which make far more difference to the end result than which brand of computer I used. If you go for a pc just remember to turn off automatic updates and keep it tidy.