ProTools LE v. Cubase SX

zongeek · #1 08-15-2006, 10:24 PM

Okay, so my band and I are looking to get a little 'studio' going. Mostly so we can demo things out for each other and what not.

Cost is sort of an issue. We certainly don't want to pay for more than we need, but at the same time we want good stuff.

So for all you real savvy people, which is best?

I went to pro-audio school and I am only familiar with ProTools. However, I have heard some stuff done on Cubase and I loved it.

Here are some things to consider:
What sampling goes with which? ie Reason w/PT or w/Cubase?
What is the 'mastering' program to Cubase? Like BiasPeak to PT.
How many tracks do you get with Cubase? PT LE only give you 16, we might need more.
Do you need outboard gear with Cubase or is it all internal like PT?

I can't think of anything else right now, though I'm sure I have more questions.

We just need something with fairly unlimited tracks or at least 24, able to run with a sampling program (preferably Reason), user friendly and all in all, be a good time.

Thanks.

dhadleyray · #2 08-15-2006, 10:45 PM

I personally would advise getting Logic or/and Pro tools.

Every pro studio I've ever been in uses those. They're the industry standard.

It's funny, but in a few other places, they prefer digital performer.

Cubase, doesn't get mentioned much...

then again, go with what suits your budget.

Rav · #3 08-15-2006, 11:42 PM

Protools LE is a 32 track recorder with support for up to 128 virtual tracks. ( aux returns, instrument, and midi tracks are not included in the 32 )

BIAS peak is just one limiter/mastering plugin for Protools there are literally dozens of others that work with Protools.

Protools will interface with just about any external software and hardware.

zongeek · #4 08-16-2006, 07:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rav

Protools LE is a 32 track recorder with support for up to 128 virtual tracks. ( aux returns, instrument, and midi tracks are not included in the 32 )

BIAS peak is just one limiter/mastering plugin for Protools there are literally dozens of others that work with Protools.

Protools will interface with just about any external software and hardware.

That's funny, the guy at sweetwater.com told me that PT LE is good up to 16 tracks. That and if I added another mic pre (DigiMax FS for example) that I was only limited to those 12 inputs and then the subsequent 16 tracks.

Any other thoughts or opinions on ProTools or Cubase?

Rav · #5 08-16-2006, 08:11 PM

I can only imagine your guy at sweetwater was refering to a digi rack 002 or a digi 002 specifically and even then he's off on his numbers a little and doesn't really understand what he's talking about to boot.

The digi 002 and rack 002 both have 8 analog channels I/O, a 2 channel SPDIF and an 8 channel ADAT in and out.

4 of the analog input channels have preamps built in.

He is thinking if you add an ADAT compatible 8 channel preamp that gives you 12 channels of recording capability.

This is sort of true from a particular perspective.

Here is where he is wrong. Any preamp signals you send to it don't need to go to channels 1-4 to be preamped again and can be on the 5-8 analog channel. Or you could add 2 more stereo or 4 mono preamps and get to 16 that way.

He is also forgetting about the SPDIF. Thats 2 more channels of input if you have preamps or devices that are compatible. Many many preamps support this these days including line 6 bass pod and similar devices.

At any rate if you kept track that means this device is up to 18 channels of audio input. (8 adat, 8 analog and 2 spdif)

Thats the part he was a little off on, here is where he completely doesn't understand what he's talking about.

This is a DAW device not a mutitrack tape recorder. The physical interfaces and the recording tracks are not hard coupled. What does this mean? This means you can plug into analog port number one and lay down your first track, then use the same port to lay down your second, third, fourth, etc etc. The physical port count only limits the number of ports you can record to simultaneously not how many you can record to per project.

Generally the only time you need more than 4 channels of simultaneous recording in any studio environment is when your tracking drums and that usually tops out about 8 in most environments.

Before someone flames me here look at what I just said "studio environment" Yes I realise there are people that do 64+ channels of simultaneous recording for live events. In a studio this just isn't the way it works generally. In a studio usually only one person is recording at a time. Most instruments use at most 2-3 channels to record with drums being the great exception.

Even if you want to do a live studio recording with everyone playing at once 18 channels of input should pretty much cover it for most bands.

**Josh Ryan** · #6 08-16-2006, 09:40 PM

Steinberg products, including Cubase have been making inroads into the industry for a while now.

http://www.steinberg.net/300+M52087573ab0.html

to point out a few.

either will do what you want. I suggest checking out screenshots and trying them if possible, see what feels natural to you, what makes sense with your workflow as you see it.

What sampling goes with which? ie Reason w/PT or w/Cubase?

Reason works with Cubase.

What is the 'mastering' program to Cubase?

There are a great many, google them or ask on a Cubase board.

How many tracks do you get with Cubase?

PT LE only give you 16, we might need more.

Info on the various flavors of Cubase:

http://www.steinberg.net/27+M52087573ab0.html

Do you need outboard gear with Cubase or is it all internal like PT?

Cubse is all internal in that it will work with whatever sound card you are using. Outboard gear is totally up to you. Not needed.

TheDarkReaver · #7 08-17-2006, 08:05 AM

cubase is pretty much the standard over here in england.

zongeek · #8 08-17-2006, 02:56 PM

I completely understand all of that.

What I was originally looking at doing was getting PT LE with the Digi002 rack unit and then adding a Digimax FS (via light pipe) to that so that I could track (if needed) 12 things at a time. I know I won't need more than 32 actual tracks. So with PT the only real outboard gear I will need is the Digi002 unit and the Digimax. That would probably take care of any and all my needs.

Like I said, I did the pro-audio school, so it's been a while and I'm a little rusty.

That said, with Cubase, I know I would need some sort of outbaord gear (mic pres) I just don't know how many. Like with PT I know if I do it the way I just said I can get 12 things at one time. But if I can do more than 12 at a time with Cubase... why not?

So that's really what it boils down to. I know that mics, Reason, mic cables, headphone (and headphone amps given they're needed) all apply across the board.

So, simply put, I'm looking for a mini-moble studio like set-up. As I said, the PT LE thing was what I was looking at. But if I can do more for the money with Cubase, I might as well.

What do you think?
Oh, and thanks for all the good feedback.

**Josh Ryan** · #9 08-17-2006, 04:24 PM

You could use a firepod and one of these EMU cards (same AD converters as ProTools HD 192 I/O)

http://www.presonus.com/firepod.html

Firepod ^

http://www.emu.com/products/product....1&product=9871

EMU ^ - has firewire.

Or you could go M-Audio (IMO, not even close to the EMU quality)

http://www.m-audio.com/index.php?do=...=pciinterfaces

M- Audio ^

there are many choices, too many to list really.

zongeek · #10 08-17-2006, 04:42 PM

Wow. Now those look cool. Though, I've never seen inputs like the ones on those. They aren't traditional XLR inputs are they?

Anyway, I could use those with Cubase and get a total of 10 inputs? That's not bad. I certainly like that PreSonus unit as you can have headphone out and monitors and the whole 9. Pretty cool.

I guess what I ought to do is figure out what program I want and then figure out what outboard gear I'm gonna need.

Though if I get the E-mu, it comes with Cubase SE, I think. So that would save money. Hmm.... Need to think.

Any other suggestions/ideas. You guys are just really popping with it.

vindy500 · #11 08-17-2006, 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zongeek

Wow. Now those look cool. Though, I've never seen inputs like the ones on those. They aren't traditional XLR inputs are they?.

ja they take xlr and normal instrument cables

**Josh Ryan** · #12 08-17-2006, 10:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zongeek

Wow. Now those look cool. Though, I've never seen inputs like the ones on those. They aren't traditional XLR inputs are they?

Anyway, I could use those with Cubase and get a total of 10 inputs? That's not bad. I certainly like that PreSonus unit as you can have headphone out and monitors and the whole 9. Pretty cool.

I guess what I ought to do is figure out what program I want and then figure out what outboard gear I'm gonna need.

Though if I get the E-mu, it comes with Cubase SE, I think. So that would save money. Hmm.... Need to think.

Any other suggestions/ideas. You guys are just really popping with it.

the inputs are those Neutrik (sp?) that allow for XLR or instrument cable on the front of the EMU. Also has phantom power.

I still stand by trying out demos, going to friends houses etc and trying both programs. See which one falls most into your comfort zone.

zandar · #13 08-30-2006, 04:26 PM

I've used both Cubase SX and Pro Tools LE.

I started out with Cubase SX 2 and one of the Tascam USB audio interfaces (US-224 I believe). I tried this configuration on both a Mac and a PC. In both cases I had issues with the interface and/or control surface being ignored by the software. This could have been an issue with the hardware though. My other issue with Steinberg was that updates and fixes were slow to come, and often required an upgrade just to get fixes that should have been free. Also, this could be different now, but it seemed like Nuendo was always a step ahead, which makes sense because it is by far the more expensive product, but still it was annoying to see advances to their audio engine take so much time to trickle down to Cubase. Overall I had a pretty frustrating experience with this setup and actually ditched software-based DAWs in general in favor of a stand-alone Korg DAW for a couple of years.

Eventually I got really sick of passing tracks back and forth between my Korg and Mac via a slow USB transfer. At about the same time I had two experiences in studios using Pro Tools. This was right about when the MBox 2 came out, and the price seemed pretty good for an interface plus software.

Now I run Pro Tools LE 7 on a G5 IMac, and I'm really happy. It. Just. Works. PLUS it's really great to be able to track at a Pro Tools-equipped studio, transfer everything over to an external drive, take it home, and play with the mix there, in the same environment. Having said that, I still need to use the Korg if I need to record more than 2 tracks at a time. I've looked at the Digi02 and I'd probably get it if I didn't already have the Korg. If you're considering it, I would make one recommendation...skip the control surface. Knobs and faders seem cool, but as soon as you get half-way proficient with Pro Tools you will realize they just take up space.

Pro Tools + Digidesign Hardware + Mac is a pretty tried-and-true recording platform, largely because a lot of variables are eliminated (different interfaces, machine configurations, infinite drivers for PC peripherals...) The other option I would consider if you're on a Mac is Logic, which some of my friends swear by. I have to admit it looks nicer to use, but I'm not switching or uprgading anything until I absolutely have to.