Rackmounted Mixer

Razor · #1 10-29-2005, 04:35 AM

All I can find in the area of rackmounted mixers (1 or 2 space) is a 1 space unit by Nady.

I'm looking for something made by a bit more reputable of a company

that is only 1 or 2 rack spaces. I'm not looking for a lot of bells and whistles, just something with at least 3-4 channels and a master volume.

Anyone have any ideas or know of other companies that make these?

Alan

Funky Doctor · #2 10-29-2005, 05:11 AM

Well I was going to mention *cough*behringer*cough* but I won't now.

Razor · #3 10-29-2005, 04:24 PM

Hey thanks for the mention...I looked that unit up and even though I'd definately go w/ it over the Nady...I'd still like to see if I can find something else. Many thanks and we'll see if anyone else knows of more.

Passinwind · #4 10-29-2005, 05:03 PM

Look at the Rolls line for starters. Rane, Ashly, Radio Design Labs, and Shure (IIRC) make nice ones, but they are spendy. Roland used to make one, you can find 'em cheap used sometimes. Seems like there are/were a few more keyboard oriented ones, but I'm spacing on the names right now. I know there are some A/V production oriented ones too, but all of those are very expensive, as far as I know.

That wouldn't be a tough DIY project. You could use the ESP boards from Australia, or just build from their schematics online.

Razor · #5 10-29-2005, 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Passinwind

Look at the Rolls line for starters. Rane, Ashly, Radio Design Labs, and Shure (IIRC) make nice ones, but they are spendy. Roland used to make one, you can find 'em cheap used sometimes. Seems like there are/were a few more keyboard oriented ones, but I'm spacing on the names right now. I know there are some A/V production oriented ones too, but all of those are very expensive, as far as I know.

That wouldn't be a tough DIY project. You could use the ESP boards from Australia, or just build from their schematics online.

Cool, I'll def check into these. Thanks very much!! I'm not sure if my theory will work, but I'm tossing around an idea of using multiple preamps into a rack mounted mixer, then the mixer into a single power amp, and then into a single cab. Using a custom A/B/C switcher to select the preamp or any combination of the three. The reason for the mixer, I have read, is to ensure that everything will be in phase going into the power amp.

Thoughts?

Jonesy4fnk · #6 10-31-2005, 09:04 AM

I've been looking for a good rack mixer myself. The only 2 I've considered are the Behringer 1602, and this Alesis

I'd be using mine to mix pre-amps from electric, MIDI, and upright basses, and theremin.

Hawkeye · #7 10-31-2005, 10:45 AM

Roland used to offer one, the M-120 which was twelve channels in a 1U rack space. It was line level only but also had aux sends / pan etc. I only got rid of it because I needed some mic preamps but I had it for years and it was a pretty good unit.

They made a 4U one as well with faders.

Droog · #8 10-31-2005, 03:23 PM

Ok, these are a bit pricy, but in my mind if you are going for a complex sound utilizing multiple pre-amps and such you are doing your self a diservice by mixing them through crap ass electronics. None the less Whirlwind makes fine rack mount mixers. Stephan Carpenter from the Deftones uses one in his rig, for basically the same as what you are doing.

BulkHead · #9 10-31-2005, 05:23 PM

Hold on a second Razor, where did you read about phase problems? You won't have any phase issues with direct outs from different preamps, you might have ground loop issues, since you are going to rack everything, but not phase.

Razor · #10 10-31-2005, 06:34 PM

I had talked to an amp tech who told me about possible phase issues.

My original plan, was to plug my bass into an A/B switcher and each signal would go into it's own pre. One clean and one dirty. From there each pre would go into an individual channel on a power amp. Basically running the amp stereo with one side clean and one dirty...into one cab.

Tech said he would recommend using a mixer to alleviate any phase problems...which he would see being present..even if using two of the exact same pre's.

His recommendation was to use an in line mixer because he said the mixer will eliminate any phase issues and allow me to use more than just 2 channels if I wanted to.

2 channels will work, and I was going off what he said about keeping the two pre's in phase with regards to running both pre's seperately into one power amp.

Thoughts?

Droog · #11 10-31-2005, 07:30 PM

I am not quite sure how the mixer would fix any phase issues, if there is any, which I don't see why there would be. Mixers don't offer any kind of phase allignment so I am curious as to what the tech had in mind. The reason I could see phase being an issue is if you had a piece of gear that inverted the phase in the chain of one channel and not the other. A mixer would not fix that, unless it had a phase invert switch, which any of the models you have been looking at don't.

You should be fine splitting your signal into seperate channels and seperate pre's and then into a mixer. If you find that you are getting some phase cancelation its not that hard to fix.

Razor · #12 10-31-2005, 10:20 PM

He basically said that using seperate pre's, into independant channels on one power amp (stereo) would produce phase problems....he was telling me to find an inexpensixe mixer instead of running the pre's straight into the amp. He said that a mixer would automatically take care of any/all phase issues with it.

Wether that's true or not I dunno...it's got yall questioning it and I am good with it either way. The only benefit I can really see from just going with the mixer route, is that it would allow me more than just two channels. I'm thinking about that mono Whirlwind MIX-5. I think that would totally fit my needs. It looks like it's got two 1/4" output jacks (perfect for running into my amp with the left and right channels) and it's got an XLR output as well which could also run as a DI.

Set the gain/output levels on each pre and use the XLR on each pre to the XLR inputs on the mixer, set the individual master volumes for each pre/mixer channel, and control the entire output volume from the mixer master volume....that sound right?

Oh, and the Whirlwind MIX-5 mono mixer I am looking at is from the above provided link...thanks for that. I did an internet search and right off the bat found an online dealer that has this unit new for $262.00. I'll do more checking around more for prices. The Whirlwind stuff seems to be pretty good from quite a few reviews I have read so far. I'll also be checking into the others you all have mentioned. I appreciate the help/suggestions...please keep them coming.

fretlessrock · #13 11-01-2005, 07:30 AM

If there are phase problems going into the mixer, the mixer won't solve them. It will just consolidate them! I think the tech meant well, but is off base.

I really liked my Ashly 308, which runs about $400 new. Line inputs, stereo pan, mono mix, no inserts. The current model is LX308B. It is common in broadcast and remote work, but it is a good sounding unit for line sources. It also has a mic-pre on the first two channels.

didier · #14 11-01-2005, 10:06 AM

We use a rolls 6x4 for recording at rehearsals, and occasionally as part of small PA. It has line and XLR mic inputs, and phantom power. 1 U, very handy. It's maybe more busy than you are looking for, but they make a nice 8x1 rack unit, too.

I have a 1U Roland 12 chan line mixer in a home studio, used for sub mixing syths and drum machines, and whatever else comes up. Older and heavey, but very useful, too. Also stereo.

Bot bought used, less that $100, I think. Maybe a little more for the Rolls.

I think there is an ART model, that might comapre to the NADY, behringer ones. I don't know much about those, but they are probably fine.

Droog · #15 11-01-2005, 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Razor

He basically said that using seperate pre's, into independant channels on one power amp (stereo) would produce phase problems....he was telling me to find an inexpensixe mixer instead of running the pre's straight into the amp. He said that a mixer would automatically take care of any/all phase issues with it.

Wether that's true or not I dunno...it's got yall questioning it and I am good with it either way. The only benefit I can really see from just going with the mixer route, is that it would allow me more than just two channels. I'm thinking about that mono Whirlwind MIX-5. I think that would totally fit my needs. It looks like it's got two 1/4" output jacks (perfect for running into my amp with the left and right channels) and it's got an XLR output as well which could also run as a DI.

Set the gain/output levels on each pre and use the XLR on each pre to the XLR inputs on the mixer, set the individual master volumes for each pre/mixer channel, and control the entire output volume from the mixer master volume....that sound right?

Oh, and the Whirlwind MIX-5 mono mixer I am looking at is from the above provided link...thanks for that. I did an internet search and right off the bat found an online dealer that has this unit new for $262.00. I'll do more checking around more for prices. The Whirlwind stuff seems to be pretty good from quite a few reviews I have read so far. I'll also be checking into the others you all have mentioned. I appreciate the help/suggestions...please keep them coming.

I think the mono mixer will suite you well. Basically you plan on sending the same signal to both sides of the amp then? Then what, two cabs, one for each side? If it where me (which its not) I would just use one of those 1/4" outs into your amp that has been bridged for mono then out to your cab(s).

Elaborate a little more. The whirlwind stuff is top notch in my experiance.

nashvillebill · #16 11-01-2005, 05:36 PM

IMHO this "phase problem" is a bunch of horse-hockey. (Unless you are talking about two speakers in the same cabinet of course). The reality is that if a listener is listening to a signal from two sources, unless the listener's ear is exactly the same distance from the two sources, the signal will be out of alignment. How far the signals are out of phase depends on the frequency and the distance from the two sources. That's physics.

In other words, don't worry about it, just set up your rig(s) and play...

Droog · #17 11-01-2005, 06:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nashvillebill

IMHO this "phase problem" is a bunch of horse-hockey. (Unless you are talking about two speakers in the same cabinet of course). The reality is that if a listener is listening to a signal from two sources, unless the listener's ear is exactly the same distance from the two sources, the signal will be out of alignment. How far the signals are out of phase depends on the frequency and the distance from the two sources. That's physics.

In other words, don't worry about it, just set up your rig(s) and play...

Yeah, there is some question as to what exactly the initial "phase" statement pertained to. It could be that alignment of the speakers and poor phase to the audiance was the concern. But my impression was that the "tech" felt that using two pre amps was going to introduce some polarity problems to the system.

Either way I agree, "horse-hockey".

Razor · #18 11-02-2005, 04:20 PM

I really appreciate all the responses/help guys and gals! Thanks!

Here's a more detailed setup of what I am using:

Bass into a few pedals, then into a custom A/B/C switch. Each line on the A/B/C switcher goes to a single preamp. One clean, one mid, and one dirty.

These three pre's then go into a line level mixer and from the mixer I will run two 1/4 inch jacks. One for each side (stereo) into my power amp.

From the power amp, I will run into two cab's. One cab setup is 4 Ohm's stereo into a single SWR Goliath Senior, and one into a 4 Ohm SWR Big Bertha.

My alternate (2nd) set-up cab rig will be a Mesa Powerhouse 1000 which has four 10's and a single 15 in one cab. It's got inputs on the rear for each set of speakers so it will take both of the output lines from the power amp as well, with the exception that it will be an 8 Ohm stereo load instead of 4Ohm's.

Basically, I'll be able to tap in/out whichever pre I want, or any combination of the three. By using a mixer, I theorize being able to use one power amp and minimal cab's instead of running three seperate rigs with the respective heads/cab's that would have to go with that.

Alan

Droog · #19 11-02-2005, 04:41 PM

Sounds sick man. Have fun with that. What pre's you gonna use?

Razor · #20 11-03-2005, 06:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Droog

Sounds sick man. Have fun with that. What pre's you gonna use?

Presonus Eureka for clean,

Pearce BC-1 for mid-level grit,

SVP-Pro for full distortion