Recording: Isolation box...among other things

Foxworthy925 · #1 07-15-2008, 01:56 PM

Hey everyone. My band is about to start recording for our full length. We'll be doing all the recording ourself, but will be getting everything mixed and mastered by a very good studio. You can check out our myspace to hear three other songs ( www.myspace.com/emortus). Two were recorded/mixed by us alone, with direct guitars and bass, and crappy drum mics. The other one was older and was even a much more ghetto setup. Anyways, I know that all of those are pretty sketchy.

For this recording for our full length, we have much better drum mics, and we might even have a studio space that we can use (one that's actually setup for recording with sound deadening and isolation and all that jazz. They just don't have any recording gear yet so we'd use all our stuff). We'll definitely be micing the guitars and bass too. The mic I was thinking of getting, which would be a great choice for all of this is a Shure SM57, since I've heard such great things about it. Would this be a good choice for the guitar cab micing? How about bass?

Now for the bass tracks, I think I'll be doing two things. I'll be recording them on my own time (my own comp) which is nice, and I'll be micing my amp/cab as well as going direct through my presonus firebox. Since this recording will be happening at my own house, I'm thinking that I should build some kind of isolation box. Has anyone done this before, and does anyone have any advice to give me about it? Is there any other mic, besides the 57, that's under about $150 and that I should use to mic my bass amp?

I guess those are all my questions as of now. We really need this recording to turn out well, so any help and advice would be greatly appreciated.

loend68 · #2 07-15-2008, 01:57 PM

We had some luck using a beta 52 kick mic.....it handles the lowend well, and mixed it with direct signal.

dmilt23451 · #3 07-15-2008, 02:11 PM

Audix D6 is a great mic for a bass cab...however you may be more pleased with your results if you just run your bass through a DI box and through a good pre-amp into your comp

Foxworthy925 · #4 07-15-2008, 02:17 PM

Thanks for the quick replies guys. And really about the DI? Hm, what would you say is a good DI. The reason I'm so stoked off of doing both is that with a miced signal, there's no way that my tone can be ruined and shaped in a way to get rid of the aggressive finger slap tone that I do, which is what happened for the 2 songs on our myspace (I wasn't playing on one of them).

dmilt23451 · #5 07-15-2008, 02:25 PM

I would heavily recommend the countryman DI...its also not a bad idea to do the blend of DI and mic...it just can have mixed results because of pre-amps, interfaces etc...

What is your recording set up as it is?

Foxworthy925 · #6 07-15-2008, 02:29 PM

The setup I'll be using to record my bass tracks is just a Presonus firebox going into a Mac running Cubase LE. The bass will be an Ibanez SRX700, and my amp/cab is a Mesa 400+ with either an avatar 210 or an older mesa diesel 115.

deathbyjune · #7 07-15-2008, 02:41 PM

If you are recording your bass track alone, there is no need for an isolations booth. You would need a booth if, for example, the drums were being recorded at the same time as the bass- this way your bass mic will not have drum bleed.

Since you are close micing you cab, without any other instruments playing, you don't need to isolate.

An sm57 would work, although it is not ideal. A dynamic mic with a larger diaphragm (beta52, etc) is designed specifically to capture low low frequencies.

bkbirge · #8 07-15-2008, 02:44 PM

SM57 is good on guitars, not so good on bass, it has an inherent low-end rolloff IIRC. Bass cab mic candidates: Sennheiser 421, AKG D12 (*not* D112), Shure RE-20, Coles ribbon, etc. Lots of choices depending on your budget. You probably don't need an iso box unless you are convinced your 'tone' only comes from cranking the amp, 'cause usually you don't need to record at ear splitting volumes. Some of the absolute best recorded tones come from small amps and low volume. +1 to tracking both a DI and amped sound.

Foxworthy925 · #9 07-15-2008, 02:52 PM

Ok thanks guys. I mainly wanted to isolate my amp so that I could run it at louder volumes with out the rest of my house/my neighbors hearing. I guess I just won't play it THAT loud then. For micing the cab, should I use more then one mic? like one up close and one farther back? And would I get better results with a dynamic or condenser mic? I'll check out the other possible mics posted. Thanks guys.

bkbirge · #10 07-15-2008, 03:06 PM

You don't need more than one mic. Turn on your amp (at a reasonable volume), put your ear close to the speaker, move around a bit while you play and then put the mic where your ear was when you thought it sounded the best. If you like more room sound/ambience, repeat the exercise with your ear not so close to the speaker. Moving the mic an inch or two can make a large difference. If you want more room sound then look for an omni-directional mic, if you want the sound only from a tight focused spot then get a hyper-cardioid mic. If you don't know what these mean, then look them up before you spend $$. There are no rules to this, only guidelines formed by experience.

zandar · #11 07-15-2008, 03:42 PM

There's no reason to go crazy with volume if you're tracking bass by itself, unless you're trying to capture feedback or something. A condenser mic works great with a bass amp in this scenario. I actually think recording a bass through a tube guitar amp with a condenser mic is the way to go, but that's a little too crazy for most people...

Foxworthy925 · #12 07-16-2008, 01:17 AM

Hey so I've been looking around more at mics and need a little guidance. Pretty much all the mics that were suggested here have been way out of my price range, which would be ideally under $150.

I was curious if anyone has any experience with the Shure PG52 for micing a bass cab?
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/produ...ble?sku=270292
How about the AKG D11?
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/produ...nts?sku=275669

Is there any mic that'll give good results in the price range I'm looking for (<$150)? Whatever I get, I need something that will capture my extremely aggressive attack, but still has a good thick body.

Foxworthy925 · #13 07-18-2008, 09:37 PM

Seriously if anyone could give me input either of those two mics I posted, I would be VERY greatful.

Nick Kay · #14 07-18-2008, 11:37 PM

Both are terrible mics in general, but especially terrible for slapping in front of a tube amp. Those are kick-drum mics. Kick mics, especially the cheaper ones, tend to have a steep, scooped-mid EQ curve. That's exactly what you DON'T want when it comes to getting a grunting, aggressive bass tone.

Seriously, just slap an SM57 in front and use the direct signal to carry the bottom end. The SM57 will get your grunt and your aggressive attack, and your direct signal will fill out the body and the top-end clarity. You're not going to find a much better mic in your price range.

bonzo4880 · #15 07-19-2008, 08:33 AM

whatever you do, dont use a sm57! not trying to start a war or anything, but i recorded my bass with one and it sounded like a$$. it is a wonderful mic, very versatile, and tough as nails. but it doesnt cut it on bass. there is definitely a low end rolloff. and i mean, you can fix that with EQ, but it still wont sound the same because you can't replace exactly what it took out. definitely use a mic AND a DI, the blend between the two is heavenly. and if you have a guitar center nearby, dont forget to check out their free rental program.

staindbass · #16 07-19-2008, 08:47 AM

hi. whatever mic you choose., look at the frequency response curve. the flatter the line, the more the mic will pick up the actual sound without adding its own flavor. the more bumps and dips in the curve, the more flavor it adds. these curves give you an idea of how the mic sounds. look at the manufacturers sites, for specifications. if a frequency response curve is not published, its probably not a quality mic. i think the rode nt1a is a good mic. johnny a

zandar · #17 07-19-2008, 11:46 AM

The dynamic mics that you have listed are better suited for live sound reinforcement. If you are recording the bass in isolation a condenser mic would be a good choice, especially paired with a DI. An added benefit would be that you can use it for other instruments as well, where the AKG D11 or PG52 are really one-trick ponies. $100 is probably the minimum I would spend on a condenser. Sometimes you can get good deals on MXL packages but I don't think they compare favorably to mics that you can get for a little more money. The Audio Technica 2020 can be found for $99 and would almost certainly be a better choice for tracking bass in isolation than a SM57.

JimmyM · #18 07-23-2008, 10:37 PM

Alright, here's what you do...you DI and run a 57 or 58. Unlike some, I think the 58 is a terrific mic for bass with a DI. It has a rolloff on the very low freqs, but with the DI, it adds them back if you want them. And sometimes those rolled off freqs can help you keep from getting the bass drum from muddying up the bass.

I was just checking out this mic today:

http://www.cadmics.com/M179.htm

This looks like it would be a really good inexpensive mic for recirding in a studio. It pushes your budget a little, but it appears to have a huge bottom end and flat response. I think it's like $165. BTW, I totally agree with staying away from kick mics.